Govt says sorry to UBS executive

Minister of Financial Services Ryan Pinder

As of Thursday, January 16, 2014

Emmanuel Fiaux.

THE Government has moved quickly to apologise to a top banking executive who was detained in an immigration road check – but the detention has already prompted claims that the Immigration Department is “systematically driving business from this country”.

On Tuesday, Emmanuel Fiaux, the executive director of UBS Bank, East Bay Street, was taken into custody and held at the Carmichael Road Detention Centre.

He had been stopped by officials and asked to produce proof of legal residency during a road block. A source told The Tribune that he had explained that he did not have the documents present. Mr Fiaux was reportedly irritated by the requests and was said to be “roughed up” and thrown into a government vehicle, before being taken to the Detention Centre and held until the appropriate papers were produced.

Yesterday, Ryan Pinder, the minister of financial services, revealed to Tribune Business that he visited UBS at lunchtime on Tuesday to personally apologise to Mr Fiaux for his treatment at Immigration’s hands.

Tacitly admitting that the resulting publicity threatened to have negative consequences for the Bahamas, Mr Pinder said both Prime Minister Perry Christie and Deputy Prime Minister Philip Davis had moved “swiftly” to minimise repercussions.

“Certainly, when there’s negative publicity, it’s never favoured by the Government of the Bahamas, and it’s never favoured when you’re trying to advance the economic development of the country and have a major international business presence,” Mr Pinder said. “It’s a highly unfortunate incident that occurred. During a lunch break at Cabinet, I went to UBS and offered a personal apology to Mr Fiaux.”

The incident was also described as “outrageous” by the president of Superwash, Dionisio D’Aguilar, who said the Immigration Department appeared to be developing “a trend” for heavy handedness when it came to dealing with skilled, high-end expatriate workers, claiming the department was driving business out of the country.

Mr Fiaux’s detention comes within a year of Immigration officials entering Atlantis’s premises to detain the resort’s sea lion trainer, and haul her away in front of numerous tourists.

“It’s another clear example of an Immigration Department that’s completely out of control,” Mr D’Aguilar told Tribune Business. “This is the second time his has happened and is becoming a trend.”

“It’s like a police state,” he added. “I’m sure they’ll go on about the fact he [Mr Fiaux] should have had his documents on him, but no one carries their driver’s licence with them all the time.

“Fred Mitchell should do the right thing and apologise.”

When contacted for comment following the incident, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Immigration Fred Mitchell said that immigration enforcement is difficult. “I will not comment on that report,” he said. “All officers are instructed to respect the rights of all people. If there are specific complaints, there is a mechanism for dealing with the complaints.

“I do not have any fears of any such perception but all public officers are forever cognizant of the image of the Bahamas and the need to protect that image. The policy is to be respectful, but to enforce the law.”

See Business for the full story

justthefactsplease 10 years, 11 months ago

Just wondering ... did they also apologise to the Haitians/Bahamians or others (primarily blacks) who may have been impacted by this?

readyforchange 10 years, 11 months ago

For Mr. Diagular's information, I carry my driver's license with me all the time, and YES they should travel with proper identification ALL the time. I am tired of Black Bahamians teaching other Black Bahamians that discriminating against black folk is fine, but touch a white person its a problem!!!! How many black Haitians and Jamaicans have been accidentally detained in these roundups in the past and I have YET to see I write up about it. I am MOST appalled by this article! I applaud immigration for attempting to tackle this problem, and yes there will be some growing pains, but I think we ALL need to be prepared to deal with it for the greater good

MartGM 10 years, 11 months ago

How many of those young black men that did absolutely nothing but be young and black also receive an apology from MPs for being accosted by the police? What other foreign nationals that have status but are normally the targets of abuse by police...have they received their apology as yet? We really need to do better in this Country!! Immigration should have handled this situation better, no doubt. Regardless of this man's race or position in this country, there was no reason to detain him (based on what I've read. Now if he were being unruly and antagonistic, then yes by all means arrest his backside!). This country has no backbone! For the first time in a while, I stand behind something Mr. Mitchell says, "the policy is to be respectful, but to enforce the law."

Guy 10 years, 11 months ago

This is so sad. Black people are their own worse enemy!

justthefactsplease 10 years, 11 months ago

Did the immigration officers do anything wrong? Shouldn't he have been traveling with some document that proves his status? Why then did the government apologize and if there was the need to apologize because the officers acted inappropriately, shouldn't someone be fired or at least reprimanded?

Seems to me like his colour and social status played a big role in the need for this apology. Care to refute or clarify that Mr. Minister?

ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago

Why did they apologize? BECAUSE LIFE ISN'T FAIR. You can stand on principle and set yourself up as the new sheriff in town all you want, at some point you have to face reality, that's either now or after all the banks have left and you and I are standing on the bread line waiting on our weekly rations. The expat acted badly, the immigration officers acted badly, Fred Mitchell encouraged and fostered the bad behaviour. Perry Christie better have a serious look at this before he does some irreversible damage. There is a way to carry out the immigration mandate without being obnoxious. Suppose that had been Izmarillian and the officer didn't recognize him or his name and Izmarillion ended up locked up in the detention center? or better yet the US ambassador? Or best still a potential investor currently in meetings to launch a new project? This is absolute craziness. And yes I support everyone, irrespective of status, being treated with respect. I also support a government that streamlines it's operations by applying limited resources strategically. A database lookup could have avoided all of this. But nooooo, they prefer to use our money to appoint campaign workers as directors of religious "something" in some ministry, sucking up much needed funds. They gats to go.

baclarke 10 years, 11 months ago

This article shows us what is most important to the government. Why are we beating up on our immigration workers if they are doing their jobs. Regardless of who you are, if you are breaking the laws of the land, you should be penalized. Mr. Fiaux's economic and social status should not exempt him from our laws. Now, if he was handled incorrectly, then that should be apologized for, but we do not know enough information to make this claim. He was merely "irritated" on how he was treated and it was probably no different than how they treated anyone else, but on this we do not know for sure. The point is, if the law requires him to have certain documents on him at all times, then he needs to comply. He is not more important than any other person, at least in my view. I also pray that our government officials stop being so biased and stop always trying to please the Foreigners. Enforce our laws please and stop joking around in parliment.

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

Since when did the law require residents to have proof of status on their person at all times? I am sure you will find there is no such requirement. No one is saying this man is more important than any other person but he should have been afforded an opportunity to produce his work permit before being hauled off to a detention centre. This is the difference between the workings of a civilized society and one that treats its citizens and guests with contempt.

GrassRoot 10 years, 11 months ago

What you are saying if you think through your line of argument that EVERYBODY should be treated like Mr. Fiaux, black, white, green, yellow. And that is wrong. Even if Mr. Fiaux were in the country illegal, there has to be due course. The issue is, that the immigration officers follow the tone of the politicians. Unfortunately the relevant Ministers in charge did declare WAR on the illegals. You can not blame immigration officers of believing they act right if the execute what is being said on Rawson Square. it has nothing to do with Bahamians and Expats, white or black or green. It is a reflection of lack of leadership. plain and simple.

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

I can go along with that...assuming they are able to provide all the proper papers, there should be an apology given...also depends a lot on the circumstances still though and that apparent lack of common sense. If you know it is an obvious situation of the guy being legal but not having his papers on him at that precise moment in time, then maybe cut the person a bit of slack and let them go secure the documents and remedy it. If there is any reason to doubt the persons genuity, then maybe haul them in...but the people enforcing the laws have such a chip on their shoulder and are so power hungry, they'll lock you up just out of spite...because they can and you can't touch them.

TalRussell 10 years, 11 months ago

Comrades it seems the heavy-handed tone of the 159 posts which at my last count were posted to the Tribune's story yesterday relating to the arrest and detention of a very senior banking executive lives on by the contents of today's disgusting posts. The vast majority of the racial slurs make me sick to my stomach. Comrades what in the hell has gone so wrong with the once positive thinking of our fellow Bahamalanders? Of course it's proper to want to support Bahamalanders first for Bahamaland's opportunities but not at the heavy-handed expense of verbally attacking the legal residents of our tiny Bahamaland. Keep this up and don't be too alarmed, when the last foreigner you force off the Island, closes the door behind them on our economy and cuts off the lights to our once prosperous way of life. Comrade Minister Freddy I have no praise for your reaction which comes across more as an emotional rather than a rational response.You are not the head of immigration officers, who should be under any damn excuse, running around our tiny Nassau Town, acting like some third word backward military force. This is not the way a minister should be reacting to a serious incident that never should have happened. PM make sure this is the very last time any immigration officer acts contrary to the true ways of the Bahamalanders they're sworn to represent.

banker 10 years, 11 months ago

God Bless You. Now you are speaking common sense.

In a benevolent democracy, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The opposite occurred here. The man should have been given the opportunity to prove that he was legal without getting locked up.

baclarke 10 years, 11 months ago

Interesting, tell that to the other foreigners, that we do not hear about by first name on the news who are wrongfully detained and yet no public apology is offered.

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

As stated ad nauseum in the other story blog...was the UBS guy wrong...YES...legally he should have had his papers...did it have to end up the way it did with him being detained...NO...lack of common sense and power hungry spiteful officials is basically what it boils down to. Unfortunately, that is the way the past few generations have been raised, and we are stuck with it...pig headed egotistical people who have risen from some nobody in the inner city to an immigration officer or police officer and want to make your life miserable just because they can, instead of approaching the situation in a calm and professional manner.

baclarke 10 years, 11 months ago

I think saying that the persons involved had a "lack of common sense" is unfounded. I was once detained by Canadian immigration in the past for not having the right documentation present. Was i irritated? Hell yes. However, i admitted that i was in the wrong and did not have the appropriate documents on me. I do not blame them and say that i was "roughed up" and that they are incompetent. They were following the law and doing their jobs.

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

I don't often agree with your posts Tal but on this one you are 100% correct. This incident was an embarrassment to The Bahamas and, like you,I am flabbergasted at the support by many of the posters here for the way Immigration officers handled this situation. After 40 years of independence what do we have? We have a nation that : a) clearly has not matured. b) resents the presence of foreigners yet wants their investment. c) has an acute sense of entitlement and d) has a problem understanding right from wrong despite being a self proclaimed Christian country.

Why on earth would foreigners wishing to invest in new businesses want to come to this country given the way Immigration handles their presence here? Bahamas, you need to take a long look in the mirror.

banker 10 years, 11 months ago

It's not a matter of racism or preferential treatment. It is an indictment of a badly behaving officer of the law that represents the Bahamian government. The presumption of innocence is a keystone of a fair and honest government.

Since independence we have done nothing to control our own economy, and hence foreigners run it. In this temporal world, there is a Golden Rule -- He who has the gold, makes the rule.

The other side of the foreigner coin, is that we have ourselves to blame for illegal immigration. If we didn't give Haitians jobs, even the menial ones, there would be no point in them coming here. If it were a closed shop, it would be like a desert. Instead we pay them to be gardeners, we charge them rent to live in shanty towns, and we take advantage of their hard work, their work ethic and their honesty. So compared to Haiti, this is a nirvana even if they work for peanuts. We didn't shut the door in the past, we won't slam it shut now and stop hiring Haitians, so the problem is now fully ours, and no amount of policing is going to stop it. The only way to do it, is to shut off the money supply and stop hiring them. That will never happen.

baclarke 10 years, 11 months ago

He was not innocent if he was breaking the law by not having required documentation on him. Also, there is preferential treatment occurring here based on the fact that this is not done (an apology) for the majority of individuals.

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

Agreed...he did not have his documents...GUILTY...did he say he was legal and could present the documents in short order? He probably would have driven the length of the island and back again to show the documents to that same officer, it's not like he was hiding some big state secret and being deceitful is all I am trying to say.

Back to the Common sense thing...

baclarke 10 years, 11 months ago

Understood, but isn't that showing partiality? Do we offer this same privilege to others who are detained without their papers on them?

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

Can someone direct me to the section of the law that dictates that citizens and residents of the Bahamas must have proof of status on their person at all times? This is news to me. This means that if I want to go for an early morning jog dressed in my jogging gear, I have to carry my ID round my neck to avoid being GUILTY of some transgression. Come on, this is bllsht

Puzzled 10 years, 11 months ago

I have had both a residents permit and a work permit here in the Bahamas and I have never received any documentation that advised me to carry the permits with me. I used to take a copy of the permit with me to work, but was told that even though I was concerned about the possibility of being mugged and losing the permit, a copy was not good enough. I have since scanned through the on line documents referring to immigration and permits and there is no reference that I can find to say that permits have to be carried at all times. Maybe there is some detail missing from the story.

GrassRoot 10 years, 11 months ago

You are absolutely right. give him a warning and a fine and lets deal with all the murderers and rapists and robbers of preschools that are walking free.

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

You are right the man is a criminal - deport him immediately. Who needs UBS and the jobs they bring to the country? We will survive off the fruit of the trees. Fred Mitchell can be given a new post once all the foreigners have gone - Minister for Agriculture!!

ohdrap4 10 years, 11 months ago

Make that title Minister of Fruit

GrassRoot 10 years, 11 months ago

Thank you Banker. So true.The reality is - all over the world - foreigners come bcz they were asked to come. I don't know why native Bahamians hire Malaysians and Peruvians, in parts illegally over Bahamians to raise their children, take care of the properties. But it seems they prefer foreigners over Bahamians. I don't know why that is, but it is what it is. We are in charge, but are quick to blame it on our neighbours, parents, the government. It is our life, we make the decisions, if we are good in the space where we can be our little kings and queens, it will have tremendous impact in areas where we don't have any influence. The true treasure of the Bahamas is - or has been - that many foreigners that came, stayed, had sand in their shoes and love the Bahamaland. All we have to do is to discover and accept that passion these foreigners develop for our country.

readyforchange 10 years, 11 months ago

Someone please tell me in which country you are NOT detained if a law officers requests your documents and you are unable to provide them?

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

Most civilized countries will give you a reasonable amount of time to produce your ID, at least 24 hours. They would NOT whip you off to a detention centre because you did not have them on your person.

JohnDoes 10 years, 11 months ago

Good concept but the extent of lawlessness here cannot guarantee this. Maybe in the future when the country is more manageable.

TalRussell 10 years, 11 months ago

How can we as a people hope to be a positive part of the future, after reading such anti-foreigner posts on these here-to Tribune blogs? There can be NO excusing the heavy-handed treatment of our citizens, residents or tourists. Make no mistake about it, this Comrade is all for enforcing our immigration laws but by the posts, enforcement seems to have lost-out to something I hope the vast majority of Bahamalanders find to be ugly beyond belief. What is happening to the friendliness, we as a people have come to be known around the word for? Comrades what could this senior law-abiding international banking executive have ever done wrong in our tiny Bahamaland that could have possibly brought so many to voice about as low of an opinion of foreigners, as you would for a bad case of them hemorrhoids?

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

the friendliness vibe went out the window with Independence and our dear departed SLOP brainwashing of our populace.

crawfish 10 years, 11 months ago

Am I the only one curious about what the UBS fellow would have to say about this situation? Why should this story be written WITHOUT an interview of the central figure?

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

The Swiss are very conservative and for the most part try to avoid the spotlight. I am betting he is just jumping out of his skin seeing his name and picture dragged through the newspapers. Probably horrified!!

becks 10 years, 11 months ago

Ok...he is foriegn, most probably Swiss....he was driving...so you can be 100% sure he had his Bahamian drivers license on him....since a foriegner can't get a Bahamian drivers license without showing proper immigration documentation the immigration officers could have 1) instructed him to wait at the checkpoint while he phoned his wife/gf/secretary etc to bring his documents,

2) or instruct him to present himself at Hawkins Hil by 4 pm with his documents or

3) taken his details from his license and car docs and told him to go get his permit and return to the checkpoint within a set amount of time. This guy wasn't going to disappear into the bush or into the ghetto if he had been allowed to go get his documents.

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

Far too logical...what on earth are you thinking!! That is profiling and preferential...who says he wasn't going to go run in the bushes and hide...sigh

GrassRoot 10 years, 11 months ago

it takes 15 USD to remove all the questions. not only at the DMV btw.

JohnDoes 10 years, 11 months ago

I have lost hope for this country. @Tal @banker @BID You all are taking this tooo personal. Act right and get treated right. The job of the officers in general is not to harrass the public, yall are the same ones who dont want nobody tell yall nothing about anything especially officers who enforce the law. Yall are the lawless ones in the country because you and almost every Bahamian along with some Foreigners just do not respect authority. I agree with some of your posts on other articles but here and 150+ comments on the one prior, you all have lost the rationalization of this whole process. The immigration officers were doing their jobs. How easy it is for any criminal to claim 'bad treatment' especially when they always get a away with slackness and then finally get caught. I agree with @HonestMan in giving him 24 hours or so to produce, but too much bribery is going on. How embarrassing it is for the country that is already labeled 'for sale' since the 80's for an MP to come out and apologize for the way 1 person was treated (a foreigner at most). The UBS man was not responsible enough to keep his documents on him. If he was in the USA, they would have locked his a$$ up until they could prove otherwise. When yall go to the U.S its like everyone all of a sudden remembers to obey the law, but here, yall could care less about laws because for far to long lawlessness has been going on, and now that enforcement is finally enforced and is proving to be working much better than the past, yall now complain. Who cares if he is a big time business executive. You know how many forgeries, laundering and white collar crimes are being committed in this country by these same foreign business executives that all of a sudden yall cherish so much? But you wouldn't crack down on them because they are such an 'asset' to the country. What happened to the fair treatment of the 'nationals'. Maybe some of these foreigners who are used to getting away with lawless slackness need to resort to leaving the Bahamas when they crack down on them, maybe that way many more Bahamians would get a fair chance in Life in the Bahamas as it relates to business ownership, oppurtunity etc. For far too long the Foreigners seem to be worshipped here and take advantage of our lawless loopholes, and I blame the 2 governments FNM & PLP for letting this get out of hand. Money hungry politicians. When are they going to represent the people that elected them? When they go to office they forget about the people and try to develop and make things better for their own selfishness. There isnt anything wrong with what they did, a white man being held up in a majority black country is for some reason considered a 'crime' here yet they forget that this country is dominantly black.

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

Shame that a sensible guy like Ryan Pinder has aligned himself with a party of incompetents.

banker 10 years, 11 months ago

His daddy is Marvin. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Honestman 10 years, 11 months ago

I know his background but it is a shame nevertheless. One of the problems with this country - blind party loyalty.

blackcat 10 years, 11 months ago

Agreed , my brother. Let's be real. same ole PLP -

DaGoobs 10 years, 11 months ago

Today's work permit is driver's licence-sized, small enough to carry in a wallet or purse. This guy should have had his on him the same way the Haitian gardeners and Jamaican maids who have work permits. It's given to him to avoid the type of situation that he found himself in: being asked to provide proof of legal entitlement to be here. The fact he's in a suit and tie and driving a high-end car is irrelevant. I've been in foreign countries where having been stopped while driving or walking around and because I did not speak with an accent local to the country I'm in, I was asked to provide proof of identity (in the driving case, beyond just the Bahamian driver's licence) so I had to produce my passport.

banker 10 years, 11 months ago

Which country was that in?

JohnDoes 10 years, 11 months ago

Exactly, and what is the purpose of the Swiss UBS here that causes an MP to miss lunch break and speed down there to apologize? I never even heard of them until this was brought up as a HEADLINE in newspapers. Funny how newspaper companies lacking provocative headlines pick and choose which to publish. This should not have been front page, if anything they should put this maybe on A7.

jackbnimble 10 years, 11 months ago

It made the HEADLINE because this paper has an obvious axe to grind with Immigration. If you have been following the immigration stories you would see right through this..

blackcat 10 years, 11 months ago

Hope to god you're not in law enforcement either. sounds like you should be locked in a basement with your TROLL views.

JohnDoes 10 years, 11 months ago

I think Ryan Pinder needs to address his vitiligo because that is the only thing thats out of hand here, I wonder if he would consider using dermablend as a cover up.

MonkeeDoo 10 years, 11 months ago

I hate to say it but our dark brothers don't have a clue as to how the bread gets on their tables. We are about as independent as pigs in a desert. If it weren't for white tourists and white wealth, managed mainly by white bankers, Mitchell wouldn't even have Haitians to pick up in this country. Mitchell, like a sports coach, sets the tone for the players and he has been preaching white hate since he got there. Majority Rule Day is another anti-white statement and just like 67, when the hotel worker gets to hating the white tourist, they will carry their white asses somewhere else. Then you blackasses could have Junkanoo every night of the week. Majority Rule - Sounds like black people never voted till '67. They did vote, and they voted for white people, so maybe we should call it majority elected day instead of majority rule day because the black majority has ruled since there were elections. Stupidity is a curse and you people are really cursed bad..

SP 10 years, 11 months ago

The president of Superwash, Dionisio D’Aguilar is widely recognized AND ACCEPTED as nothing more than a "deep" brown nosing UNCLE TOM used as a sounding board for disenfranchised UBP/FNM.

SHUT THE HELL UP...Dionisio! You have tried all your life to be something you are not..and could never be....WHITE ELITE!

Thank your God for Daddy's ingenuity.........Because you don't have any!

MonkeeDoo 10 years, 11 months ago

Dionisio is GREEN my friend which is the only colour that counts. You could be black or white as you want but if your are broke you are broke, We depend on white people for the green money so if you blow them off you are blowing yourself off !!! White people today don't look at skin colour, they look at intelligence - you should try it !!!

PercentieL 10 years, 11 months ago

White is not a colour, but a state of mind.

B_I_D___ 10 years, 11 months ago

Very true...come across countless blacks who have such a chip on their shoulder, such a sense of entitlement and superiority, and holier than though that it would make any white persons attitude look meek and mild.

concernedcitizen 10 years, 11 months ago

@sp ,,having grown up knowing the father and both sons , your statement has no basis in fact ,widely recognized and accepted as being an uncle tom by who ,you ?? Whenever a black/brown man succeed do you call them an uncle tom ??Your racism and inferiority complex is evident in all your post ..

leeza 10 years, 11 months ago

Now I get it the government is in these fellas back pocket, they have to make it look good cause they don't want that stream to dry up anytime soon.

MonkeeDoo 10 years, 11 months ago

Yeah - what you got to feed 350,000 people dickhead !

banker 10 years, 11 months ago

Jail the UBS banker because he wasn't carrying his papers, but don't you dare touch those illegal webshops because my boxed numbers might come in tomorrow.

The UBS banker didn't break the law, and gets a ride to the detention center. The webshops break the law every day and nothing happens.

Does anyone see the hypocrisy. Suk Teet.

There is still a black/white race thing going on here. You would think that after 40 years of majority rule, that it would have gone away. It has not. Would anyone care to guess why?

Calling Dionisio an Uncle Tom sounds like it came right out of the defiled mouth of Fred Mitchell. That is how he whips up the Kool Aid drinkers.

This whole discourse, or lack of it, explains graphically why the Bahamas is socially, economically and morally stunted. There een no cure for ails the minds of Bahamians.

concernedcitizen 10 years, 11 months ago

WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE HAD BEEN A BLACK BANK BOSS HERE ON A WORK PERMIT ??WOULD HE HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO GET HIS PAPERS ?? OUR TOO MAJOR INDUSTRIES ARE TOURISM AND BANKING ,AND PLEASE DON,T GO ON ABOUT FARMING WE LIVE ON CORAL ROCKS ..JUST THAT SOME PEOPLE ON THIS BLOG HAVE NEVER HEARD OF UBS ,ONE OF THE LARGEST WORLDWIDE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION ,SHOWS THIER LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE ...WE ARE CONTINUALLY LOSING MARKET SHARE TO UNDER DESTINATION ,AND A LOT HAS TO DO W/ THE UNDERLYING RACIST ADDITUDES ..IT IS OK, WE ARE A MAJORITY BLACK COUNTRY AND WE CAN MAKE WHITE PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE IF WE LIKE ,JUST BE PREPARED FOR A LOT MORE POVERTY AND A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING ,,IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE ,,SORRY FOR THE CAPS ,I CAN,T FIND MY GLASSES ,,

Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago

Is it possible to import topsoil and have the same company re purpose/re-nourish it? What did Israel do to turn infertile land into arable land? And mariculture? It's a definite possibility right?

concernedcitizen 10 years, 11 months ago

@Domin1,,Who is going to work these farms ,our "lil darlins " ,,farms take hard working low cost labour ,...you willing to let in more Hatians "buying " work permits through the politically connected

Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago

No, between the existing Haitian population, 18-25 yo's, the unemployed and the prison population, you can find enough human capital to make it as low a cost as necessary in the beginning; don't get me wrong I believe in a living wage but in establishing industrial farming you have the potential to underpin many other industries and social services (and to the evil geniuses out there, I am in no way suggesting you impose heavy punishments on petty criminals to ensure steady long-term 'employees').

Farming is noble work and character building and since it's also hierarchical you can learn as you grow if you develop a passion for it. You can also build share-cropping or a cooperative structure into remuneration.

concernedcitizen 10 years, 11 months ago

Farming is like fishing you either have it in you or you don,t .By the time we import the soil ,equipment ,firtelizer etc ,we can grow a 10 dollar tomatoe ,,,The islands w/ volcanic soil and cheaper labour produce in mass much cheaper and better qua lity even w/ shipping cost ,,Hey its been tried here for 200 yrs ,,we basically grow inferior products that rot at the dock ,,Remember the Brahma cows that the US gave us that could survive here ,the US provided the food etc ,,they were left to starve to death ,,,Hatchet bay ring any bells ??

Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago

I hear what you're saying...though...

The agriculture course at C.O.B had in the past enough interest even with nothing to farm, and I wouldn't suggest trying it in any way that resembles the methods/management of the past (especially the neglectful approach, that was determined not to work).

200 years ago up until recently we didn't have the methods, the means but most importantly the local market we have today. The market here demands such a superior quality and quantity you make that your goal from the jump. Yes, true it is impossible for me to determine the final price and quality now but I would argue in truth it's difficult for you to do the same. And we did have success for a time with pineapples even with an unsophisticated operation and antiquated shipping methods.

What I am not suggesting is trying a range of products at once, I'm suggesting one medium scale product at once and grow the project product by product but obviously limit it by environmental considerations..

You can grow a $10 tomato if you want an immediate $ ROI but if you count the socio-economic ROI, incentives for other partners in the production/distribution chain and reasonably expect a longer term ROI (with government subsidies not management) it could eventually be profitable right?

And we don't need the retail/wholesale prices to be better than the US, we just need them to come in under or match the local prices because we would still win by paying for A/B crops instead of B/C...D? crops and employing people?

Even if industrial farming proves unviable after a feasibility study wouldn't that signal a natural need for subsistence farming programmes as food prices inevitably inflate out of the reach of the poor?

I could talk excitedly ad infinitum with supposition and guesswork (and more from the perspective of nutritional anthropology than economic viability) but I would really like to hear more from you and other knowledgeable people and I mostly want to hear your concerns.