One of the dogs treated at last year's Operation Potcake.
INTERNATIONAL organisation Animal Balance has warned that the country’s stray dog and cat problem will never be resolved if the government listens to local veterinarians.
In a letter to Prime Minister Perry Christie expressing concern over the cancellation of January’s Operation Potcake (OP), the group said the help of foreign volunteers specifically trained in high volume spays and neuters cannot be shunned if the over-population issue is ever to be managed.
Emma Clifford, the founder of the Animal Balance – the lead organisation in the last January’s highly successful inaugural OP programme – also reminded Mr Christie of his personal endorsement of their efforts.
Comments
keithcooper 10 years, 11 months ago
We need more global organizations like Animal Balance to write letters in support of OP and send to the Prime Minister.
ohdrap4 10 years, 11 months ago
Good. There are more practicing vets than ever, and the population has not been reduced. Honestly, I see no harm in the temprary foreigne help. The vets are looking bad, they need to elect stephano greene and belinda wilson to represent them, for a fee of course.
proudloudandfnm 10 years, 11 months ago
There is no way to control our stray dog problem thru neutering only, seriously there is an army of strays on Nassau alone. We absolutely have to start destroying them too. Someone's child might get mauled while we wait for them to die off.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
When you walked away from (botched) the negotiations you took yourself out of partnership with the charitable organisation here and put yourself in competition with them. They set their base price and while yours is cheaper there is almost never an instance where we can compete with the US/world on price. I understand that charities have to fiercely guard their bottom line because the money is the hardest to come by but that is what they were doing as well. For all those who misunderstand (I hope I'm not one of them) this is not the for profit business of the Vets assoc. involved it is the charitable operation of the Vets assoc involved; same people very different financial statements and time management but the foreign Vets understand this perfectly well when they too go back to their day jobs.
Was it possible to pay their price since everybody has acknowledged that they had less time to give and do a considerably smaller volume? Or capped the numbers they did at $50 or capped the numbers at $50 out of a guaranteed X amount.? Or offer something of interest to them in exchange for their charitable effort? Instead, you've said 'they left us no choice but to walk away' after one round of negotiations and lost out on the opportunity to be involved and lost out on the opportunity to raise funds in an area of concentrated wealth, and then you go to the public for this pity party and caused this dramorama and now everyone (yourself included) is covered in this stink.
They may need to draft outside help to fix the problem that may in fact be true but they may also need a more congruent partnership.
In the meantime what would be useful for the public instead of the blame game is sound advice on how to live side by side with this problem until it comes under control? What does one do when one encounters a pack of strays? Is there anything a child could do? What is on the market in the way of dog repellent? It is devastating when someone, especially a child, is hurt by an animal.
Straight_Talk_Bahamas 10 years, 11 months ago
What in the world are you talking about??
Please reread your statement and remember that not everyone is in on whatever conversation you're having.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
What part?
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
and I felt it fair to express MY opinion when there are people commenting who think the Vets shouldn't be allowed to breed and that they are bum-sniffing potcakes!
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
Price appears to be issue. The others and equally important are manpower and access. The foreign group was here to devote 100% of their time to the project. How many vets were going to close down their businesses to do that? The foreign group were going into the community door to door, how many local vets were prepared to do that?
At the end of the day, it's not really a matter of who does it but whether the work has an impact on the problem.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
It is always a matter of who does it, as it is the other side of the same coin. Animal Balance's decision to walk away from negotiations means that locals doubt the judgement of the Bahamian vets when any number of combinations including using Caribbean vets/animal care operations or PETA or me or you can be contrived to fix the problem, it doesn't make me doubt their judgement or their skill and it certainly doesn't make me liken them to a greedy, proud, potcake!
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
Disagree. If you keep your eye on the problem and getting it fixed, that objective will resolve the "who does it" in the best way. Doing "something" is not good enough. On the other hand, if you focus first on "who gets the contract" (everything seems to go this way in this country), you're setting yourself up for some unpleasant surprises.
I certainly agree with you on the latter, I made my comments about "...reminder that these local vets could be good people.." (I said "could be" because I don't know them personally, they could also be horrible people, but I'm optimistic)
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
Except your own evidence shows you that who gets the contract weighs (yes in this country disproportionately) on what and how things get done.
But no other issues are involved at the moment.Animal Care IS the remit of the Vets Assoc. They HAVE said they will handle it. They DO have other options besides the inflexible Animal Balance and I (already capitalised) for one can't wait to hear them.
I know you can't swing a cat in this country without hitting a shady or ineffective person, but where we do concentrate all of our energy and vigour and morals is in opposition to anything and everything! 1 out of 2 of us, all the time, on any matter. So even though it seems the right thing to do is to withdraw support and criticise, I'm asking again to let them handle it. They might surprise us and allow Animal Balance back to the negotiating table (without the strong-arming tactics)
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
And more importantly if you think WHO you do business WITH is not most important then I can suggest where you can buy some campaign contributions!
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
You didn't read what I said, or you've chosen to misunderstand.
If your focus is on solving a problem, if that is your main focus. you will find the person not who you like, or who you've been friend with since high school, or the prettiest, or who you're sleeping with or your cousin or the "Bahamian". You will find the person who can have the greatest impact on the problem
If my focus is bringing efficiency and ethical leadership to govt, i would never engage Nygard or Shane for example. My focus on "the problem" naturally determines who I select. If I just looked for "funding" to assist with the effort, forgetting the main objective, look at all of my options...
Stephen Covey "begin with the end in mind"
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
And I'm saying they had a false start this year with Animal Balance. They are not letting it go, they will re-group, they more than likely will have other partners. so wait maybe I agree with you it doesn't matter who does it. It is THEIR objective to get it done not the Dentists' nor the Butchers', no amount of praying will work (except for a resolution) so the Preacher's have to sit this one out. But any friends that are Vets or girlfriends that are in animal care or PLP's who can donate or FNM's who have contacts with other groups, the Vet assoc might be calling on you for your assistance in this matter.
Animal Balance walked away and then decided with ego and ire to trash talk and manipulate and hold the tourist industry to ransom but to my knowledge what they have not done is written back to Vets assoc to say my bad, let's start again.
So if the end you're looking for is an on-going collaboration, you might start with two organisations that can get along. How are they to work together now? When you walk away you should stay away not haunt the project with the baddest vibes!
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
Ok, but the letter from the local vets was riddled with "ego" as well. I think their end should be "eradicate stray dog problem" eradicate
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
I agree they mirrored the tone of 'we're walking away' with 'Buh bye' see ya wouldn't want a be ya, shit we gat this, we gat this!
But now Animal Balance should be either looking elsewhere to work or looking to re-open negotiations, and the Vets Assoc. after saying oh shit, should be re-grouping and maybe reaching out to new partners. But nobody there suddenly lost sight of the objective because Animal Balance is gone and they are not the only possibility to efficiently handle such a volume. But the Vets assoc have not had a second to consider how to get this done, if they do get some time we might find that OP2014 goes on in July instead of January and the only thing that will have changed is Animal Balance's involvement. I do applaud them, they know how to write an influential letter,but use your powers for good instead of evil and find some humility!
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
This has always been a negotiation between two parties about the business of animal welfare in the Bahamas, neither party was off to Sawgrass for the shopping!
The Vets Assoc asked for cash for their involvement to sustain their charitable operation (which includes other essential services) an additional 50 weeks of the year and the Foreign Vets wanted the Bah vets as volunteers in their larger programme how anyone turned into villains is beyond me.
I understand how charities work and how hard thy work to make life better for all of us but the Bahamian Vets are being asked to give up the most (out of all of us Bahamians) and then be expected to manage animal welfare once the foreigners have left and the funds have been exhausted which is a monumental task given that a lot of people would prefer that the funds raised just be used to destroy the animals.
After you've bled in your charitable efforts people expect you to accept the pain of a job well done as payment and it seems the only way to not be criticised for mis-management of charitable operations is to not get involved!
I hope you make it back to the negotiating table, but if you don't I hope you can still manage to wish the Bahamian Vets well in however they manage to work it out.
UserOne 10 years, 11 months ago
The local vets have not been asked to give up anything. They don't have to volunteer if they don't want to. All that was asked was to allow foreign vets to come in and fill the slots the local vets were unable or unwilling to do during the five days. The local vets said no.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
And that was set to happen except they wanted a portion of the funds raised to do the work to do even more charitable work and the foreign vets said no just volunteer and they have said repeatedly it was not they that walked away. They didn't ask anyone to stay away and now that the negotiations have fallen apart they have said they will handle it themselves and were I guess about to re-group but now have to fight their way through this shitstorm when I don't know about you but it seems to me they are good people trying to do good work. There's more than one way to skin a cat (other than skinning cats!)
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
They are good people. The work has to be effective otherwise youre just shelling out money and spinning your wheels.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
What they are doing with the money is stabilising the local charitable operation in the face of opposition when most have no concern anyway. Where do they get the money for their year-round charitable operation except from the same pot of hard-earned money for potcakes? Now that Animal Balance has left the negotiating table there is room for (Bahamians or foreigners I really don't care who) another party to sit down and talk efficiency. It's not over because Animal Balance is over! But who doubts it's up to Bahamian Vets to manage Bahamian animal care issues? With or without foreign aid?
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
Sigh...I understand that you are supporting the worthy initiative of admirable Bahamians. I get it. All I am saying is they shouldn't shoot themselves in the foot. Sometimes you have to be humble. What is their goal? To eradicate the problem or to say that we have the skill set to spay a dog too? If their goal is to eradicate this MASSIVE 40yr problem, I'd get all the help I could and the cheaper the better
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
You always look for the win-win situation in charity work, and in the two of forty years AB has been involved they did a stellar job 50% of the time and dropped the ball 50%. I'm just going with the better average.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
Really who walks away from the table after one round of negotiations ? Mafiosos, maybe bullies...if you want understanding you work for it, agreement - work for it! You want to solve a problem you listen and then speak, not walk away then stir the pot!
Dumb decision or not (remains to be seen) the Vets didn't deserve this melee.
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
It takes two. Like me and you. (from the disclosed contents of their letter, did not sound like an innocent party)
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
Yeah we know egos were involved. (I don't even care to whose letter you are referring). Do you have any answers to the last paragraph of my first post today?
It was nice talking to you!
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
A pack of strays at night? I suppose running would be very bad. I don't know...keep calm and carry on?
Emac 10 years, 11 months ago
“The foreign vets said no just volunteer and they have said repeatedly it was not they that walked away”. Well that’s interesting: We have seen a posting from an excerpt of a letter that was sent to the volunteers of Operation Potcake by VMAB members. It outlined where VMAB members declined to have volunteers of Operation Potcake come into this country, during their vacation, to assist in the efforts to control the amount of stray dogs that roam the streets of the Bahamas. We have yet to see anything in writing coming from the volunteers of Operation Potcake to substantiate your claims.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
I took the time to read ALL the posts. To paraphrase 'we had no choice but to walk away'
C_MonMan 10 years, 11 months ago
Well then maybe you should read the letter sent by the local vets to OP because your ex-poste reasoning appear to be inherently inconsistent and inconsistent with what other local vets have already written. In fact, it is amazing how in a mere 24 hours you have gone from not knowing how the local vets made their decision and I quote "This is one investment the Vets assoc. have said they can handle and you want to begrudge them the decision? I don't know how they came to this decision but I know it wasn't: we're so dumb, we can't do anything, money money, death to all foreigners!" to having intimate knowledge of the negotiations as you stated above "The Vets Assoc asked for cash for their involvement to sustain their charitable operation (which includes other essential services) an additional 50 weeks of the year and the Foreign Vets wanted the Bah vets as volunteers in their larger programme". Further, we have heard from local vets themselves who have indicated that the $50 was for re-imbursement for supplies so just who is correct you or the local vets.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
I read the posts and the letters and I understand it to be: if the $50 for supplies wasn't essential then why would they bring it to the negotiating table if there was such an abundance of supplies provided by the foreign vets? From other posters I inferred that earning on this operation was for year-round care and other essential services for their charitable operations? I formed an opinion without calling anyone a liar, and when I said I don't know how they arrived at the decision, I mean I don't know what happened after Animal Balance said we're going that they would say OK then go knowing everything at stake.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
My posts may seem inconsistent because yesterday the tone was in defense of the Vets and today it is critical of Animal Balance, but above all I was in support of the project the whole time and leaving room for parties to breath and mostly that the public take a step back and let the managers manage. Do you know what the Vets next move is? I don't know either cause they are really busy digging themselves out of this hole that didn't have to be if egos weren't involved on both sides.
JohnDoe 10 years, 11 months ago
We don't know what the vets next move is but I suspect you do because even your explanation to explain your inconsistencies are inconsistent. I think the Bahamian people would have just appreciated a no-spins explanation from the local vets for their decision (based on their letter to OP) as it does not serve any worthwhile societal interest to demonise either the local vets or the OP operation.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
\What inconsistencies, I said I don't know either? Maybe somewhere along the line I used a do instead of a don't but I know my mind has not changed Agreed on everything else.
JohnDoe 10 years, 11 months ago
My only interest here is trying to quench that unsettled feeling in my heart that says we have missed an opportunity for a more optimal solution. I am not interested in defending the local vets, criticising Animal Balance or vice versa. This is not nor should it be about me or you or about the local vets or Animal Balance. This is and should remain about trying to optimally address a national epidemic with respect to our stray dog/cat issue.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
I know the feeling, not only was it optimal, it was so close and I didn't have to pay a thing, and a relationship it seems is over and because most people are unable to let go immediately and say OK what's next, the lamenting turned into a mire. But when the dust settles we will have to figure what's next anyway and I have faith our Vet professionals can figure that out. The silver lining is the expectations have been raised on those that have volunteered to manage this situation and the public has set its 'baseline' for results. So I'm sure if they need the help they will ask for it.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
Anyway how would you sum up the negotiations, maybe I did get it wrong?
BHSBaarkOP 10 years, 11 months ago
More than one vet in the BVMA in conjunction with the Animal Welfare groups has priced out the surgeries to $20 per surgery. The focus is not egos nor is it financial gain. The focus needs to remain on high volume sterilization of animals on New Providence and the Family Islands. It's not about them, it's about the animals. The vets need to be clear on this.
ThisIsOurs 10 years, 11 months ago
Their letter didn't help their position. I agree, eyes on the problem, on both sides
Lagie 10 years, 11 months ago
For the record, it was NOT the decision of Animal Balance to cancel OP 2014. It was the local organizers' decision after receiving the letter from the VMAB. With the donated time from the foreign vets, OP would have cost about $25 per dog with the possibility of 1,000 animals being spayed/neutered in five days. The vets declined foreign assistance, asked for $50.00 per dog, and said OP could only be three days. This, in effect, made the campaign non-viable and the organizers made the decision to cancel. High-volume spay and neuter has been proven worldwide to be an effective way to reduce stray numbers.
Domin1 10 years, 11 months ago
It doesn't matter who cancelled, Operation Potcake was at the time of cancellation Animal Balance, and it was cancelled because the negotiations fell through and they fell through because the Vets wanted a piece of the charity pie for THEIR charity work (and I hope at this point this is 100% true because I believed them when they said it) and they fell through after one round because someone, not the Vets (John Doe representing X representing Y if you insist), walked away from the table. At this point I'm sure all the letters (all coming after the negotiations) are rhetoric but if you pick through the 274 comments on the original article you get a clearer picture of how events transpired and you can see the ego on both sides through the words.
IF your penultimate statement is true then I ask the Vets OK now that things have fallen apart and you say you can handle it, what's next? (At this point, the local Vets are still in the equation and the local advocates are still in the equation, and it is still the remit of the Vets; the only people not in the equation is Animal Balance).
IF Animal Balance and you and your supporters feel that all is not lost (because if your last statement is true Animal Balance does not have exclusivity on high volume spays and neuters) then I suggest finding your way back to the negotiating table but please take the sting out of the tail and try not to get the backs of the people who manage the affairs up. There has to be a win-win situation here,
And take care that playing out this drama in the press doesn't undermine the good work that both sides had in mind.
C_MonMan 10 years, 11 months ago
I have no "dog" in this as I am just a local businessman who donate to several animal welfare groups as well as a dozen or more other local groups. For me right will always be right and the same for wrong. Having said that @Domin1 you continue to repeat the above, even when you yourself admit that you do not know it to be true. Your behavior begs the question why, but that is really not the point, at least for me. From reading the 274 posts one would read that the local vets agreed to perform surgeries for $30 per animal, provided vacines were supplied. When the new local vet officers were elected they decided to tell OP that foreign vets were not needed and to raised that fee to $50. In those posts local vets have repeated said that the $30/$50 was for re-imbursement for supplies. Having already seen a quote from the letter where the local vets state that foreign vets are not needed, below is a direct quote from the actual letter the local vets sent to OP dealing with the $50 fee, "Thirdly, in pledging our commitment to this undertaking, we have also agreed to acquire our own materials for OP, thereby providing you with more time to dedicate to other aspects of the planning. We can assure you that the best approach to the acquisition of our supplies would be best accomplished by each individual veterinarian, as sifting through the differences in personal preferences to materials can become exhaustive. Also, each veterinarian can make their own determinations of quantity of supplies, based on past experience, and the predicted number of animals that can be done by each person. With that said each veterinarian would like remuneration in the amount of $50 per animal after services are rendered, which we all agree is a nominal fee for our efforts. Not only will we acquire our own anesthesia, but ALL surgical and medical supplies will be provided by the local veterinarians. The financial climate in the country demands that we take into account the possibility that donation of our time to efforts like these can potentially create a negative impact on our practices, so it is only fair that while we do not seek to make a profit from an exercise as charitable as this one, that we do not ignore our own expenses, to our detriment." Please let's stop the duplicity and ex-poste shenanigan and put the focus where it needs to be which is on solving the stray dog/cat epidemic in this country.
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