proudloudandfnm 11 years ago

I was almost mauled one night in Nassau by a pack of stray dogs. If I were a child I'd be dead right now.

Dogs are animals, just like cows, pigs and goats, we eat animals.

Destroy them, neuter them I don't friggin care. Just do something about them....

Bailey05 11 years ago

Where do you come from where dogs are eaten?? Just as an FYI genius you also an animal..perhaps we can eat people to? let's start with you...

I see a lot of ridiculous things in the news, but this... This is just... Who ARE these morons? Why would they stop volunteers from coming in to help take care of this problem? They suddenly want to do it themselves? And want to be PAID?! Get the hell out of here! The next person to suffer an attack should be one of those idiots.

PBizzell 11 years ago

NOT morons!! Just highly trained dedicated Bahamians who are tired of being disrespected by people with a shallow understanding of the issues

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

I don't get it...there's a huge stray cat/dog problem in the country. I haven't noticed it getting any better. Someone comes in to help and all of a sudden "the Bahamians can do a better job"? Why weren't they doing it all along? Maybe everyone can't pay $50 to spay their animal, are the local vets prepared to go in the communities where the problem is and offer their services for free, not just a token showing but a real effort country wide?

PBizzell 11 years ago

Many Bahamian vets have "been doing it all along" and have been doing low or at cost spays for several Nassau based animal welfare organizations Of course many persons cannot afford $50.00 to spay their family dog. Hence ARK, Proud Paws, BAARK, Pink Potcakes, Stray Busters, etc. Local vets have participated in these programs that have allowed indigent persons to access free spays and neuters. Many Bahamian vets have assisted with spay/neuter projects in many Family Islands. More so in the past year than ever!

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

How many years did you say? After, I'll be fair, 4 or 5 years without an obvious dent I'd say the "same thing" is not having the result you want. Some directed help might be a good thing. Do you drive into the community or must the community come to you?

PBizzell 11 years ago

No not morons!! Not getting paid!! Patriotic volunteers giving up their own practices for a day or two and getting re-imbursed for the materials they use. Read my post and apologize!

Jack 11 years ago

You think you vets are the only ones giving up your practices??? Almost ALL the foreign vets gave up their practices for TWO WEEKS this year. Most of the volunteers gave up their full two weeks of holiday a year, some volunteers suffered business losses to help the animals and improve the Bahamas, so don't start about being patriotic . Not many Bahamian vets did the same may I add, one or two days here or there. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves!! You're a lunatic if you think we believe your B.S. Bizzell.

ohdrap4 11 years ago

TruthSayer 11 years ago

Read the post about the actual cost of supplies.

PBizzell 11 years ago

The only sensible part of your post is the Biblical quote with which I wholeheartedly agree. Please read my post below and understand a little more about what we are offering to do!

Emac 11 years ago

LOL Good one. HE HE

RUKiddingMe 11 years ago

Nobody is asking the vets to give up their salaries to have volunteers to come here and work for charity - there is a serious flaw in your question. Better to ask, who here is willing to take stray Potcakes and/or Potcats into the vet and pay $50 out of your own pocket to have the animal spayed or neutered. Then to work hard to ensure that the animal is either released to a caring home or at least into an area where they are going to be fed and cared for? Are you?

Zags 11 years ago

I have donated to several spay/neuter projects in The Bahamas including Operation Potcake and Proud Paws. Unfortunately most people do not think long and hard enough to realise that, even when veterinarians - whether local or foreign - donate their time and expertise, surgical materials still have to be paid for. This is where we, the donors, come in. Yes, the spays and neuters may be performed for no cost to the people bringing them in, but the materials are paid for either by the vets, or by donations. In my experience the average 'at cost' surgery in The Bahamas is $50. Also, there are added difficulties in living offshore. My experience has been that everything costs more in The Bahamas EXCEPT veterinary medicine. I am always happy to donate to spay/neuter projects but I am becoming dismayed by the number of people who actually believe that these projects are free.

banker 11 years ago

So to reframe what you are saying, if someone tries to game the system, even though the system does a lot of good, its time to shut down the system? You can't cover up the opportunistic greed of the Bahamian vets!!!

Zags 11 years ago

banker, as I stated in a previous post, I cannot paint all the vets in The Bahamas with the same brush.

B_I_D___ 11 years ago

'Shirley you can't be serious!!??' Do you honestly think that anything the crew from Operation Potcake does is taking money out of the local Vets businesses? Have they ever...and I would like the to comment on this...have they ever gone out if their way to try an initiative of this sort, gone out of their way to help dogs in need for no $$ in return...no, they sit in their offices and wait for sick pets or pets needing attention by caring owners. The majority of the charity to animals is done by people like the Bahamas Humane Society or other similar organizations. The Operation Potcake crew are zero threat to the livelihood or salaries of the local vets, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for not joining forces with the team and giving of their time...giving back to the community, helping animals in need that have no owners or $$ to pay for services...in this case, just a simple spay or neuter. Give up their salary for foreign workers...you are as bad as them...they are not here to start up some clinic to compete with the local vets. Idiots...the lot of you and them that think that way.

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

Exactly. They cater to people who can pay and not everyone can pay, that why there's a problem.

PBizzell 11 years ago

They also cater to people who cannot pay by assisting with low and at cost spays on behalf of the several animal welfare groups

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

"At cost" is that the same as free"? And how is it different from "Low"? I thought I read somewhere here that the cost of supplies was $50 dollars. many of us "haves" may not comprehend it unless we have been in it, but 50 for some people is the grocery money for a family of 3. They cannot afford to spay 4 or 5 dogs. It probably more than they make a week and after gas and food there is little left.

PBizzell 11 years ago

Free is what a poor client gets, low cost is much less than the normal price and the vet makes a small fee for his time and expertise; at cost is a spay for which the vet charges only the cost price of his materials.

The poor client gets a free spay, the vets a low fee either low cost or at cost Depending on the deal with the charity who is paying

sdc 11 years ago

Rory - fact of the matter is these dogs would NEVER see a vets office if it were not for Operation Potcake (they are strays and do not have any money to take themselves to a vet - therefore the vets are actually in a BETTER position after operation potcake)- so many loving homes are found for these dogs through this operation that then result in local vets receiving INCREASED business because now these dogs that would otherwise just die on the streets have caring homeowners to take them on regular vet visits. i have 4 rescues myself and i spend more money on vet visits a year then i do on personal doctor visits and i cannot support any vets that would be so selfish to take away the opportunity for these suffering dogs to receive vet care, the possibility of finding a loving home, educating the community on pet care and help get the SERIOUS overpopulation problem we have under control. The local Vets clearly understand the extreme stray dog problem we have in the Bahamas and should be welcoming these volunteers who are giving up so much to help make OUR country a better place. Or lets just let the dogs out there suffer a little longer while the Bahamian vets slowly now attempt to solve the problem because they see what a great success Operation Potcake was last year. They cannot sit here and say that they have this issue under control. SHAMEFUL!!!!

PBizzell 11 years ago

For the record, Bahamian vets have always done cost price spays and large amounts of pro bono work for clients unable to pay normal fees. They also participate in many spay and neuter projects in New Providence and the Family Islands. Proud Paws in the past 10 years has spayed/neutered more than 7,000 dogs and cats in New Providence and has contributed to spay and neuter projects in several Family Islands. All of this good work was performed by Bahamian vets and their staff with funds raised from Bahamian residents. No outside assistance was requested nor needed for what is the most successful spay/neuter project ever in The Bahamas.

The Tribune Survey re Operation Potcake is a "TRICK QUESTION"!!!

The question more accurately should have been framed;

Do you prefer dogs to be be spayed/neutered by volunteer foreign vets using funds raised from animal lovers at a cost of approx $50.00 each OR

Would you prefer dogs to be spayed/neutered by Bahamian vets using their anesthetics ,antibiotics,needles,suture materials, pain meds, which cost them approx $50.00, for they would be re-imbursed by the organizers. Oh by the way, the Bahamian vets bring their Bahamian trained surgical assistants and pay them their usual day's pay!

B_I_D___ 11 years ago

Dr. Bizzell...I mean no disrespect with what I am about to say here...I really don't....but out of any of the 'local' efforts to spay and neuter...what is the annual spay and neuter count? You complain that doing this even at cost...plus we are still paying our assistants a days wage...would you not embrace an army of volunteer vets to speed up the process? Let them come in and do the work instead of costing you money...you can focus on what makes you money and let the crack team of volunteers come in and do the no pay work...what purpose does it serve the VMAB to block this if it is not a monetary thing...break it down for me because I am at a loss here...and as someone who supports prqoud paws...I am shocked and seriously disappointed...my aid in that respect is done.

Zags 11 years ago

B_T_D_, as a transplant to this country, I think it is understandable that, as more and more Bahamian vets qualify, that they want to be responsible for veterinary medicine in their country.

If you are Bahamian, would you want foreigners to come in to do your job? On top of that, is it not insulting to have non-professionals [i.e. animal lovers like myself] dictating what should be done in the realm of animal welfare to the veterinarians. If I were a veterinarian, I would be rather put out.

While there must be co-operation, it should be up to the vets to invite their foreign colleagues in as it is deemed necessary.

Imagine if activists started inviting foreign dentists, physicians, lawyers and architects into The Bahamas to practice their professions? Quite simply, it is not their role!

TruthSayer 11 years ago

No one is "dictating what should be done in the realm of animal welfare"! The VMAB worked with the OP directors and they AGREED to support the project, AGREED to doing 1000 spays and neuters for the cost of $30 per dog for the next 5 years, AGREED they could not take on the issue of animal overpopulation and needed a comprehensive project like OP. They were involved from the VERY BEGINNING!

So if it were me that was one of the volunteers, who worked for the past years to build this project, raised money, took their vacation time, contributed their own resources, set aside differences with other groups to work for the common good of the animals and the community, I would be rather put out, as you say!

and if you had a huge problem, that the dentists, physicians, lawyers or architects could not handle that was causing a public health and public safety issue, they yes, they should ask for assistance to work with them to fix the problem. Those people don't want to stay and take the jobs of Bahamians, they just want to HELP!.........that is why there are organizations like Doctors without Borders, Operation Smile, Vets without Borders, The Red Cross and a million others.............THEY JUST WANT TO HELP!!

For the record, just because you are a Veterinarian, that does not mean you are involved with animal welfare. Those of us that are involved with animal welfare are rather put out by that statement.

Lagie 11 years ago

7,000 animals divided by 10 years is 700 a year by my calculations. Operation Potcake did three times that amount in ten days.

PBizzell 11 years ago

I agree with your Maths; when Proud Paws was going full blast we did 1,00-1,500 per year. I believe that the best way forward is a continuous project with all clinics participating with a target of 60 pets per week or 3,000 per year.

PT 11 years ago

That would be AMAZING Bizzell... but why not do that AND let the foreign vets come in February and do as many as they can? Say these vets were permitted to come next year and are able to perform 1000 spays & neuters on top of the 3000 you are projecting Bahamian vets will do - would sterilising 4000 dogs & cats be somehow worse than doing 3000? What is the real problem here, I don't get it? To me it seems like a non issue, if the goal is to prevent further overpopulation & suffering...

banker 11 years ago

Ohhh I get it, instead of solving the problem right away for free, lets take our time and make it expensive? Are you part of the PLP government?

TruthSayer 11 years ago

at $30 like you agreed to?

banker 11 years ago

You are totally missing the point. This is an area of business that the Bahamian vets can never capitalise on because Bahamians do not spay and neuter strays.

Someone tries to do some good for the country, and like most Bahamian human potcakes, the vets are trying to enrich themselves in a very opportunistic greedy fashion when someone tries to do good for the country.

PBizzell 11 years ago

As a banker please explain how a vet can get rich spaying dogs for $50.00 when the materials used cost most of this fee and when they can probable spay 20 dogs per day? Even if the dogs were small and the materials cost only,say, $35.00, that means the net profit for his work would be $300.00. Then he pays his staff, power, nat insurance, etc etc. Is this "greedy vet" ever going to get rich? Your a banker please show me how?

Ctmrn678 11 years ago

I only get to visit your lovely country, but I've been there enough to say "Mudda Sick!" to this. The local vets lose no money for having volunteer vets come and do some routine surgeries that prevent more needless suffering for these animals.They are strays, no one would pay for them anyway. The volunteers come, do the work, and maybe spend some money while they are here. Then maybe, in time, the tourists don't see these sad looking starving animals, and wonder what is wrong with this place. And before anybody starts, I have put my money where my mouth is---I have 2 Potcakes!

crabman 11 years ago

If it wasn't so sad this story would be hilarious, makes me all warm and fuzzy to think that some money grubbing, two faced, selfish, moronic, imbeciles are out there saying they care about animals, but you have to pay them to care. Foreigners must think we are about the worst kind of people in the world to turn them down, I hope this story gets out to world. What a bunch of rot that they say how magnanimous they are giving up their time and their hard earned money. Man is suppose to watch over gods creatures not let them come into a life of torment and suffering.

All of you kind "special, loving" vets will get your reward when god calls you up and asks well what did you do to make the lives of the potcakes better?

PBizzell 11 years ago

Wrong! All Bahamian vets were asking for was to be re-imbursed for the materials materials they use in the surgeries!!! Yes I expect to see many of my vet friends on the other side of the Rainbow Bridge!, Hope to see you too!,

keithcooper 11 years ago

Attention ALL HUMANS! It has been decided among ALL BAHAMIAN POTCAKES that there are many Veterinarians and other worthless Bahamians who have let us down. We are what you are! When you do not take care of us we will become a problem for you that will remain out of control. We will come after you with a vengeance for forgetting that we need to be loved and cared for. We cannot talk with our mouths but we feel pain, we cry inside and suffer at the hands of those who ignore our basic needs. We will never forget those who left us to suffer. We will continue to love those humans who love us. Signed "The Bahamian Potcakes and Potcats".

DLawrence 11 years ago

Firstly, I'd like to thank Dr. Bizzell for his comments and his attempt to speak on our behalf. I am a veterinarian in the Bahamas and have seen my fair share of suffering at the hands of selfish owners with little to no regard for their own animals, viewing their own animals as they would a paper cup or plate... Simply disposable. As I read through some of these hateful comments, tears fill my eyes.. If any of you could walk a day in our shoes, to see the suffering, removing maggots that have eaten all the tissue down to the bone, having to amputate legs because the leg has been festering so long that it's all but rotted off, watching animals come in dying of heart and liver failure and gasping for air, animals ingesting rat poison and on the verge of death... If any of you could walk a day in our shoes, you would feel differently. I LOVE what I do! I love driving home at the end of the day knowing that I saved just one more... Just one more cat or dog.... Knowing that I helped just one more makes it worth while. I personally drive around nassau feeding stray animals.. I've done it before vet school, fostered and rescued all through vet school and continue to try to make a difference in ANY way that I can. No one is making a profit... Believe me I've worked in the US for many years and vets in the Bahamas DO NOT work for profit, so far from it..We do it because we love what we do.. I encourage anyone, please call your local vets come see what we do and then You decide... Is it worth casting that stone? Life is too short for hate and negativity.

keithcooper 11 years ago

You need to get out there and be more visible...hiding behind your glory does nothing to educate some of the dumb ass people who bring these animals that are suffering...as an association your group should lobby the government for laws to protect these animals along with severe punishment when convicted of animal abuse. I am tired of all the BS and wasted talk in this country...these animals have no voice and at least the VMAB should be that voice for God's creatures. Your organization need to get up off your asses and do some good the animals.

PBizzell 11 years ago

For your information new laws concerning animal welfare have been drafted and passed through the House of Assembly. Several of our VMAB members worked on the committee that drafted this legislation . It took a long time and the full cooperation of the vets and animal welfare groups. Now finally the Animal Control and Board has been formed and the work of implementing these new laws can begin.

We don't sit on our asses much! We all work hard in an extremely demanding profession and all of us are compassionate and have a great love for animals; if we did not we would not last long.5

PBizzell 11 years ago

Yes but laws at least give us a place to start. Without laws where do we begin? And we have to be very patient; changing things takes a long time!

B_I_D___ 11 years ago

If there is so much work to be done, and you have these people willing to come in here and HELP you all...why block it? WHY? What purpose does it serve? Embrace them with open arms...work WITH them, ALONGSIDE them, take advantage of the extra hands...for FREE. tell me why blocking this is of any benefit to any of us, except for you all for some monetary benefit...that is the ONLY reason why a program like this has any backing to be blocked...it's causing you to lose money.

Zags 11 years ago

Actually, there is no such thing as a FREE spay or neuter. Local and foreign vets may charge nothing for their time and expertise [as they did in Operation Potcake], but the surgical material must be paid for - either through donations, or, by the vets themselves. Please see my post below for a more detailed explanation.

Animal_Lover 11 years ago

WELL SAID! If the vets REALLY did care about the core issue which is the animals suffering they would be thankful for people coming in to assist!

Zags 11 years ago

The lack of understanding of animal welfare in The Bahamas has come as a great shock to me. I have made several posts tonight because I am a lay person who is interested in animal welfare in The Bahamas.

I am not originally from this country but, having made it my home, and being an animal lover, I have taken time to learn about the issues. I have donated to several spay/neuter projects, including Operation Potcake and Proud Paws, and know that it is as a result of donations such as mine that these so-called "FREE" projects can take place.

Surgery costs money, even when the medical professionals charge nothing for their time or expertise. Just because people who bring the animals in do not have to pay does not mean that the surgeries are not being paid for.

People have to be educated that there is no such thing as a free spay or neuter. Someone is paying, even if it is not visible. Maybe there should be a rule that all donations made within The Bahamas be used to pay for the cost of surgeries done by Bahamian vets, and any foreign vets coming in should not be allowed to raise money in The Bahamas.

Can you imagine a Bahamian vet going into the United States and raising money there and then being allowed to perform spays and neuters?

Unfortunately, I think that people are reacting without thinking things through. We need a public forum where wise, unemotional people from both sides of the issue can discuss this subject and educate the uninformed.

DLawrence 11 years ago

Thank you Zags.... Finally.. Somebody is home!!

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

You're missing the point. How are these people taking money from you? Most of the people contributing to the problem cannot afford to pay you 50 dollars to spay each of their animals. They will never come into your office....they may be responsible for up to 5 strays running around their neighbourhoods and that's just one family. Will you do it for free?

PBizzell 11 years ago

Of course there is an absolute need for free and low cost spays hence the several animal welfare groups that sponsor these surgeries. All vets here participate in these programs and in this way give back for the good of the animals and the Bahamas.

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

That's fast and loose.... How many free hours do they actually donate as compared to the hours offered by the foreign group?

I am in no way suggesting that vets should not make a living and have any obligation to be more altruistic than the average Bahamian, I am just saying that the help does not hurt. More than likely this is a case of personalities getting in the way, just like at BEC, once that happens common sense goes out the door.

PBizzell 11 years ago

They each probably donate more time each week than any other profession. How many hours

do accounts, doctors, lawyers, bankers donate?

ETJ 11 years ago

"...hence the several animal welfare groups that sponsor these surgeries." That says it all. If struggling animal shelters and rescue groups are paying local vets $50 each, that is NOT FREE service provided by local vets. Low cost, yes. Free, NO. Giving back entails giving. Not covering your costs by charging others who also did not contribute to this problem and who incur many additional costs in housing, feeding, transporting etc all these animals to your clinics.

Jack 11 years ago

Yes life is too short for negativity Dr Lawrence which is why it's so sad we the people of the Bahamas have been put in this situation by the local vets. So dry your tears because we wish you could walk in our shoes as volunteers that go into the community in OUR OWN TIME and see the pain and suffering as you do. It's not just about the spays and neuters, it's about the community spirit that Operation Potcake has created. It's about the massive educational drive that will make the next generation of Bahamians more caring people. It's about going into yards across the island en mass and working out ways to help the animals together with the owners. Operation Potcake brings the people together from all walks of life and and gives them all a warm fuzzy feeling about caring for animals. It's about Bahamians and foreigners standing together and working out a solution because many hands make light work. Why would the vets possibly want to stop this wonderful momentum that has been created?? You tell me if you care about animals so much? I know the answer and it's greed and short sightedness

PBizzell 11 years ago

Jack, there is no reason that the wonderful process you describe should stop! Continue the good work, keep contact with the people you have helped, partner with the local vets who have volunteered their clinics and their time for spays and neuters. Why do you think that foreign vets are such essential part if this process?

DLawrence 11 years ago

Jack.."A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".. Why wait for one time of year to come together or lend a hand? We educate people every day. Everywhere I go, my friend, not only while I'm at work, I do it every day..I don't wait for the show and hoopla, don't need the photos or crowds... Just see a hungry sick dog or cat and help.. As an individual out of my own meager budget.. Why? Because it's just the right thing to do...You call that greed?? Really..? Hmm.. Call it what you may I will continue to do what I love and you do the same.

Zags 11 years ago

Dr. Lawrence you are correct. Though I do not know you, as a participant in animal welfare projects, I have noticed that it is only when foreigners come in that there is recognition of what is being done in the animal world.

I do know Dr. Bizzell, and I know how much he has done through his clinic and Proud Paws, in New Providence and in the Family Islands over the past forty odd years.

They always say that you are not a prophet in your own land, but it is a pity when those with only spotty knowledge of a situation have the loudest voices.

Jack 11 years ago

Bizzell and Dr Lawrence, both your replies have demonstrated that you just don't "get' Operation Potcake and THIS is the real issue here. If you can't work it out from my reply above then there is no hope and the Bahamas is doomed on the animal care front. The "hoopla" Dr Lawrence, helped us get the people in the doors, yes, people who never in a million years would have got off their lazy bums to help their dogs did. Yes, you can pick up a sick or hungry dog, but what is wrong with having 100 or more foreigners and locals get together for a big event to help on a much larger scale? We all win, not just the odd dog or cat you pick up.

It's also about getting enough volunteers. The "hoopla' got us a load of volunteers that never would have given their time. Having a big program once a year gets everyone together for a common goal. It's very hard to drum up volunteers on a regular basis and many people I know had planned on giving a week of their holiday time EVERY year to help with this project in the Bahamas. Why on earth would they fly from across the world for 3 days? So now we have to rely only on the same locals who give every bit of their spare time instead of spreading the load.

Bizzell we need foreigners because you can not do the job on your own. In one breath in your letter you say you can, it the next you say you're cutting down the days to 3 because you can't handle it, Which is it?

No one suggested that we ONLY do Operation Potacke on a large scale. It is in combination with the many smaller efforts that occur every week with the Bahamian nonprofits. If you have not seen that then you're blind.

Dr Lawrence, you and the other vets have allowed yourselves to be conned by Bizzells archaic views. I'm sure you and many of your colleagues are good vets but you really, really don't understand what Operation Potcake is all about and that is such a shame.

ETJ 11 years ago

Because doing 700 surgeries a year has obviously not solved the problem; although doing that many is great, it's a band-aid to this massive problem and this problem grows on a daily basis as more puppies and kittens are born daily into lives of misery and suffering. No one is suggesting that foreigners be allowed to come in for the next hundred years. The idea is to get some high volume s/n vets in here for a week or two at a time, as often as necessary, to target and hit hard the biggest problem areas. There are some vets for whom this is their specialty. Why would we turn away vets who can do 50-100 surgeries in one day - are there any high volume s/n specialists in the Bahamas? If not it's ok! Most private vets even in the U.S. are not high volume s/n vets. These vets coming in are not private vets looking for a relaxing vacation on the beach. They are vets who have honed their skills in s/n and want to give back to suffering animals everywhere. Why in the world would we turn this down, it defies explanation. The point is to do as many surgeries possible in the shortest time frame possible in the worst areas - it's called targeted s/n and it is the only thing that will get a handle on this problem. After which time, the idea is that the local private vets will do the maintenance s/n that needs to be done all along as of course more dogs are imported, bred etc. And some will inevitably be missed or unable to be done even during the most intensive MASH clinics. What about continuing education? Why would local vets not want to take advantage of working alongside specialists in these efforts? Does the VMAB require continuing education for annual licensing? Wouldn't this be a great opportunity especially for young local vets to learn from seasoned high volume spay neuter vets? What in the world is wrong with that??? It can only help everyone. The day that anyone in any profession, thinks they have nothing left to learn, is probably the day they should retire. We can and should all strive to learn as much as we can from whomever we can about our respective fields and interests. This whole thing is just sad.

PBizzell 11 years ago

I agree

leeza 11 years ago

So how do you feel when you see animals smashed up in the street and people just go past like its normal and 100% of the time they stay there and rot. We need to control strays even more now than before seeing that we have highways and why isn't anyone advocating for fences or barriers to prevent these creatures from accessing the busy roadways. I have never heard of any initiative by vet to spay of neuter pets free more persons who can not afford to have it done. I know that there were programs in place like BARAK and ARK but they would have to pay for these to be don't at your private clinics to voucher no surgery

speedy_g 11 years ago

For a project of this scale, cooperation among agencies is essential for success and sustainment. However, it does seem that the VMAB is now backtracking. They seem to be trying the ‘we never said that’, but it’s clearly written in black and white:

“With much deliberation we have come to the agreement that we can confidently use our expertise as veterinary professionals to manage the demand of a mass spay/neuter clinic, without the need for outside surgical assistance… Firstly, we politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries… We have given consideration to the fact that all of the slots for a five day clinic were not capable of being filled by all of our local vets, so apart from having “substitutes” from outside our borders it seems feasible to reduce the number of surgery days to ensure that each clinic is covered daily with at least two local vets.”

So now the argument is ‘that is not what we meant’. So what did you mean then?

You state now that it was the decision of OP 2014 to cancel and that you merely wanted to open negotiations, but if I were to guess I'd say that you are surprised that OP did not just roll over and accept your demands, but instead cancelled the event.

My understanding is that the vets of the VMAB were offered the donated supplies to use and as much time as they were willing to give up, OR they could use their own supplies at a cost of $30/spay or neuter. Seems fair to me…so the crux of the issue is foreign involvement (pride) and money (greed).

As a nurse, I too have seen suffering. I have seen maggots in wounds, limbs amputated, death and devastation of the human kind and I know it is no easier with animals. As a nurse I have gladly given up my own time to volunteer for mass efforts and have worked along side physicians who have demanded nothing in return for their time. I have seen mass efforts in Haiti, in the US post Hurricane Katrina and most recently in the Philippines. Medical supplies are donated, time is donated and compassion is always free. I don’t believe that in any of these situations the local physicians would say, “we got this, we don’t need any foreign help”. So why is this any different?

A massive combined effort from all of those who see the need for such compassion for our animal counterparts combined with ongoing, smaller local efforts would go a long way to correcting the problem in a humane way.

Stop backtracking, if the letter you sent is your true position then be strong enough to stand behind it. Otherwise, get over yourselves, apologize to the people who have worked so long and hard for this to become a reality, suck up your pride and accept the help that is so obviously needed.

Zags 11 years ago

Last year during Operation Potcake both local and foreign vets volunteered their time free of charge. No vet was paid for his or her participation. In addition, all surgical material used for the spays/neuters was supplied to the participating vets for their use. These supplies which cost approximately $50.00 per animal were bought with funds raised locally.

There is no such thing as a FREE SPAY [or NEUTER]. A spay [or neuter] may be performed at no cost to the owner, but the materials used have to be purchased - whether with funds raised through contributions, or by the vets purchasing them from their suppliers.

The following question was posed in a Tribune 242 survey today:

"Operation Potcake has been cancelled following opposition from local vets. How do you think the spay and neuter programme should be run?"

The options were:

"As they did last year, foreign volunteers should be allowed to operate for free"

or

"Local vets should undertake the project at a cost of $50 per surgery"

Unfortunately, the premise of this question is incorrect.

Neither the first option, nor the second is a true statement.

The correct choice of options should have been:

As they did last year, local and foreign veterinarians and their staffs providing their services free of charge and being supplied with all necessary surgical material paid for with funds raised locally, at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

or

Local veterinarians and their staff providing their services free of charge, and being reimbursed for all surgical material which they supply and use for the spays and neuters at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

In each case, the cost per animal is $50.00.

The mistaken idea that the foreign vets' surgeries are free is ridiculous: All surgery must be paid for.

Foreign vets are coming into a situation to assist the local veterinarians and everything that they need is provided. When local vets carry out spay/neuter projects within the islands of The Bahamas they purchase and take along their own supplies.

Unfortunately veterinarians in The Bahamas get a bum rap. This may be because they do not go around tooting their own horns and, perhaps, because few people know how much pro bono work they actually do.

I have never seen any other medical school graduate [in The Bahamas] treated with such disrespect and it is in stark contrast to the way that veterinarians are revered in other countries. I have never experienced the way [my fellow] lay people and animal lovers feel that they are as qualified [to make decisions concerning animal welfare] as a veterinarian who has been through years of medical school.

As lay people we should be embarrassed by our own behaviour and comments; we would never dream of disrespecting our physicians in this manner.

The costs of course vary according to whether it's a dog or cat, whether it is large or small, whether it is young and slim or old and fat, whether it is pregnant or not, whether it is a crypt orchid or not, and whether vaccines are given or not, what anesthetic is used, what antibiotic cover is provided, what pain meds are used and what health problems require treatment.

ETJ 11 years ago

PBizzell 11 years ago

BTD Excuse me if I felt obligated to speak out against the disrespectful and ignorant comments posted here. I am proud of my profession and proud of my role in the development of veterinary medicine in The Bahamas. I have always stressed the need for vets to work with animal welfare groups and for animal welfare groups to be supportive of our veterinarians.

Recently animal welfare seem to be intent on dictating to Bahamian vets how their profession should operate in their own country. Of course this is hard to take. I hope the new generation of vets now entering our profession will take pride in their contribution to their country and that they will be able to earn the respect that currently is not being shown to our profession.

JohnDoe 11 years ago

You are addressing an entirely different issue and, quite frankly without trying to be disrespectful or presumptious, I would sincerely encourage you and your organization to take a look at your PR approach because some of the responses to the issues raised here have been less than helpful or flattering to your esteemed profession.

banker 11 years ago

You have done nothing to advance the Bahamian veterinary profession. Period.

PBizzell 11 years ago

How little you know!!

ETJ 11 years ago

Beating people over the head with derogatory remarks is not furthering your cause or position, and is not going to give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling about local vets. Is it not clear to you yet that the majority of people are disgusted and ashamed and this is not going to help anyone's private practice? The very people who are your bread and butter are the ones who are the angriest about this!

PBizzell 11 years ago

I have not made any derogatory remarks, but have been doing my best to reply to the derogatory remarks that have been made against our Bahamian vets.

Zags 11 years ago

Dr. Johnson, thank you for your wise words. I also agree with B_T_D_ that you and your group need to explain the nuances of this issue which, sadly, are missed by most people who are only tangentially involved.

JohnDoe 11 years ago

Below, and correct me if I am wrong, is what I understand to be a purported excerpt from your letter to Operation Potcake, "going into the next few weeks, knowing that a considerable amount of planning has already gone into OP 2014, we would respectfully like to present to your planning committee an alternative to the current construction of this exercise. Firstly, we politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries, inclusive of the cat clinic at the BHS. We apologize for any inconvenience that it may cause any person, as advanced notice is preferred under such circumstances. We do feel as though we are capable of carrying out a considerable number of surgeries, and would like to make a concerted effort to accomplish a realistic goal all on our own". An objective reader can judge whether you are simply voicing a concern or telling them their help is no longer needed. What I gather people don't understand and maybe you can help us is that assuming we all can agree that we have a stray dog/cat epidemic in our country, why are the local vets taking the position that their services and the services of Operation Potcake must be mutually exclusive when both are striving to accomplish the same objectives

B_I_D___ 11 years ago

Wow...just wow...

sdc 11 years ago

So will the Bahamian Vets still be willing to donate their time if all supplies is DONATED not purchased from each individual vet for $50.00?

Domin1 11 years ago

The VET's association whether it pains anyone to admit, has the right to ask for the opportunity to manage national affairs and the government (PLP or FNM or etc) has an obligation to support them in their development. This boils down to the enduring argument of whether [charitable] foreign investment is better for the Bahamas so we continue to support the financial and structural growth of their organisation or an economy should be shored up as much as possible by local investment. The Vet association should have cut their support off after the last event or allow this one to proceed informing the public that it would be the last one; but their timing was their only mistake not the decision to kindly refuse further assistance. What will be interesting to see is if the widespread criticism of their decision would equate to their being ham-stringed (or in 242 term shot in both knees with a sawed-off so they are sufficiently crippled) or if this widespread acknowledgement of the problem will gain them the support they are seeking. If this was really a question of the short-term vs. long term solution (because it is cheap for anyone to suggest that not ALL parties involved are interested in the well-being of these animals) then the foreign assistance at last year's event would have led to infrastructural development not the perpetuating of year-on-year dependence. Funding is what helps a foreign organisation satisfy need and need is essential for funding. The Bahamas does not have to be on the inventory of need for every other organisation to justify fundraising but not our own! Charities are businesses as well and animal welfare (spay/neuter programmes PLUS all the other essential services they donate) is is the business of the Vet's association. I hope despite the criticism they can receive the financial and moral support to continue and in short order establish and maintain functional infrastructure that continues unwaveringly to remedy an anti-social situation

kristychan88 11 years ago

Right242 11 years ago

Another typical Bahamian answer. Instead of trying to fix your own damn problem, you point the finger at someone else. Stick to the subject, moron.

KimAra 11 years ago

This is not intended to become a “he said, she said” battle, however we feel that the organizers of Operation Potcake MUST respond to a couple of remarks made over the last 24 hours.

We did indeed try and meet with the VMAB just last week, and were refused to be part of the meeting. One of our organizers recently invited the President of the VMAB to lunch .
To say that the letter from the VMAB was an invitation to “merely voice their concerns” is misleading when language such as:

“We politely decline the offer to have the additional veterinarians come in to assist in surgeries, inclusive of the cat clinic at the BHS.” “We still feel that to send a clear message to our fellow Bahamians, that we are an entity more than capable of managing the difficult task of reducing our strays, and it should be none but our own that assume that responsibility.” “With that said each veterinarian would like remuneration in the amount of $50 per animal after services are rendered, which we all agree is a nominal fee for our efforts” is used. It did not appear to us to be an invitation for dialogue but a “fait accompli” ; we had the option to take it or leave it.

We had dialogue with many of the vets in September and $30 had been agreed upon if they were to supply their own materials, but we buy the vaccines. 1,000 doses of DHLPPvC canine vaccines =$2,469.20

4.In a breakdown of supplies needed for this years OP, factoring in $9,000.00 to the local vets, excluding the vaccines Plus the following supplies:

ANESTHETICS: Ketamine: $1,038.00

Xylazine:10 bottles...... $500.00

Valium: 100 $11.45 = $1,145

Isoflurane (Gas Anesthesia) 6 x 35 = $210.00

Grand anesthetics approx. $ 2,893.00 Suture material & cold sterilization, gauze $5,000.00 300 Local Vet Surgeries - $ 9,000.00 Vaccines - $ 2,469.00 Anesthetics (visiting vets) - $ 2,893.00

Grand Total - $19,362.00 10% discount = $17,394.00

Just over $19.00 per animal. (includes budgeting local vets $30 a dog)

Minus $9,000 (local vets) total: $17.75 per animal.

The quantities and product list supplied by very qualified, well respected Veterinarian, some months ago Numbers based on Local Vets 300 animals visiting vets 600 animals.

I invite everybody to tell me how the cost per animal is now $50.00, what costs and products is this based upon?

Dialogue is needed, based on facts, not finger pointing and insulting I have endevoured to put down r what I believe to be facts and facts alone…

ohdrap4 11 years ago

The VMBA should be more temperate in their proposal and simply let it go on as planned this time, and then make a counter offer for the future. It is too late to cancel now and it looks very petty.

Now Dr. Bizzel does a whole lot of pro-bono work, perhaps more than any other vet in town, but the reaction to his posts comes from the fact that he and his associates charge the highest fees in town.

Potcakes are defenseless creatures, how could they object to help other help them, as vets, is astonishing!!!

proudloudandfnm 11 years ago

I guess folks will take this seriously when people are mauled by these strays. Rory is 100% there is a real dog issue. Had I been a child I would have been mauled by that pack of dogs, it was surreal to see them stalking me all hunched down. Dogs are animals, just destroy them.

ETJ 11 years ago

And that is exactly one of the things so wrong in this country when God's creatures are scorned and reviled in this way. This is the absolute reason why so many are born and neglected to live a life of suffering.

KimAra 11 years ago

look this is a dsicussion on one thing , if you hate dogs or are afraid of them,,,point taken. There is honestly no need to say it 100 times, we heard you...noted...have a nice day

KimAra 11 years ago

by spaying and neutering we are EXACTLY doing what you want cutting down the number of strays...please endevour to understand

proudloudandfnm 11 years ago

Endeavour to understand this. It is not happening fast enough. Kill 5,000 this month and every month until the problem is done. By spring we will no longer have a dog problem. You wanna wait until a child is killed hey?

TruthSayer 11 years ago

I know you are afraid the packs of dogs and rightfully so. But the one thing that is proven and has years and years of statistics behind it, is that simply killing the animals does not work. Spaying and Neutering, plus education, and lots of public outreach is the only solution. That is also a proven fact. So if you want to make your neighborhood a safer place for you and the children, then help spread the word and tell your neighbors to spay and neuter and maybe volunteer to post flyers or have the BHS folks speak at the school or your local church. It will help!

dogfriendly 11 years ago

To the vets: can you put aside your differences with the OP program and let them just get on with their good work? In any case, the dogs and cats in the OP realm will never enter your doors because most are wild, stray, or in yards of the inner city. For sure, your personnel will never go out an take the time to trap them, and for sure no payment of $50 will cross the table! OP did such a wonderful job last year in spite of difficult situations (including a robbery) and they will have another successful 2014 if you will cease this posturing and let them get on with their work.

TruthSayer 11 years ago

Thank you for that very accurate breakdown of costs. It is obvious the BVMA numbers are padded.

I have read their letter and it is very clear that they do not want foreign vets coming in to work for free. They are trying to backtrack now, because frankly, they are getting destroyed in the media. If in fact, the intent of their letter was to open a dialog about the option for another plan, they might want to rethink who they have write their formal letters. Because from the looks of the comments in this blog (many of which post direct quotes from the letter) everyone seems to have the same interpretation of the meaning.

First they agree to work with the groups that comprise Operation Potcake. Then they see how much money was raised and how much money the volunteers spent getting to the Bahamas and they think (Ka-ching!) we can get all that money and we can say we will do the job and make some money as well! Didn't anticipate the pushback on you plan, did you? Why is everyone acting this way towards you? Because they do not like being lied to, they do not like promises being broken, they do not like people who can't give 10-14 days out of their year to volunteer to help those less fortunate. I'm not as all saying that none of the vet association doesn't volunteer, but the letter from your leader certainly does not reflect that.

So let's say you do 500 surgeries for $50, we now know the actual cost of the supplies is roughly $17, but I'll round up in your favor to $20. They pay you $50 x 500 = $25,000. Actual costs are $10,000. That gives your a nice profit of $15,000. Here is the problem with your thinking, you assumed people were dumb, but they aren't, no even close. Animal Welfare volunteers are some of the smartest people I have ever met and some of the most passionate. That is a bad mixture if you try to BS them and then do something that is not in the best interest of the animals. One can see from this blog, that you have found that out.

In your letter, you also mention you can only do 3 days, just too much of a hardship for you to do more. That doesn't bode well with people either, not people who spend their vacation time going to volunteer to help animals, not the people who plan their days off a year in advance to be be able to volunteer more. So, you grudging offer to work for 3 days and make a profit, even if it is not your normal profit margin, that pisses them off.

In the end whatever is decided about the money, you cannot make the impact required to address the overpopulation in 3 days with just a few vets. Battles are not won by a few soldiers taking out a few other soldiers. It takes an army. You were offered a well trained, dedicated army to help you fix your problem. They deal with the dogs that would never, ever grace the doors of your clinics.

I hope everybody can swallow their pride, lick their wounds and honor the commitments they made.

JackG 11 years ago

I just became aware that this is not the first time this year they have done this.

TruthSayer 11 years ago

They have done the same thing for years…………and promised, for years, that they could handle it. In the mean time how many thousands upon thousands of animals have suffered while they count their money?

Domin1 11 years ago

or maybe the amount they figured is from the bulk supplier they've contracted to supply their larger operations/ It doesn't mean our Vets padded anything.

browndogtci 11 years ago

If you don't make any money from it Dr. Bizzell then was does it matter who does it?? Having just participated in a spay/neuter clinic in Turks & Caicos I saw first hand what it takes to spay/neuter that many animals in such a short time period. It was like a military operation. Without the experience and know how of Pets Without Vets (vets and vet assistants!) who been there, done that it would not have been possible. Just because you're a vet does not make you qualified to manage such a large scale clinic. Shame on you and your fellow vets in the Bahamas!!

TruthSayer 11 years ago

BVMA,

Do you have a problem with people getting their food from a food bank? Do you have a problem with the parents of a sick child getting free medical care? Would it matter if the people suppling the food to the food back were from the U.S or some other country? Would it matter where the Dr. came from that was treating the child? I know the Nassau has the "good" hospital and the "other" hospital. If you can pay, you go to the "good" one, if you can't you go to the "other" one. I have yet to see one of your grocery stores saying that the food bank has to pay them to get food to feed the needy. But I am guessing that if they did a story on the grocery stores requiring all the food banks purchase their food from them at a profit, they would have the same feedback you are getting. You are not unique, you just made a bad choice and now you reap what you sow……..you keep trying to put a good spin on what you have done and frankly, the hole you are digging keeps getting deeper.

banker 11 years ago

The bum-sniffing potcakes in this situation are the Bahamian vets. Shame on you.

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

I meant to say earlier that I don't know Dr Bizzell or the other vets involved, they may be a fine individuals. Their paying customers may think them saints for the care they give their animals or the way they treat their employees, again I don't know. But they should really rethink the stand here, let the foreign vets assist in getting the problem under control, no one is saying you don't have the skill to perform the operations. The problem is just so huge right now that it stretches the bounds that you would be able to handle the whole for free. There is nothing wrong with accepting assistance. Once the problem is under control the local charitable efforts may be enough to maintain the environment.

blackcat 11 years ago

@ ThisisOurs, I completely agree. I have dealt with Dr. Bizzell before, as well as his associates at his practice, along with other vets on the island with never a doubt of their skills or professionalism. I have never had the experience of seeing Dr. Johnson but have heard excellent things about her too, from more than one person who were very pleased with the care she extended to their animals. I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I don't believe the concern here has anything to do with questioning the vets' skills.

The issue here is that the problem is out of control. High volume spay and neuter campaigns at low cost have been proven to work and aid significantly in putting a cap on the problem. Many animal rights groups such as Pink Potcake, Baark etc work hard all year round to spay and neuter stray dogs/ cats on their own time. This cannot be done without the help of local vets and for that, us volunteers are hugely grateful. But doing little by little throughout the year is simply a band-aid approach as many of us have full time jobs and time is limited.

Operation Potcake has happened once before and amazing and successful results were seen. It is not like the vets did not know what they were getting into this time around, having participated last year. If they had any doubts, they should have been communicated up front and early on before out -of-town volunteers had already gone out of their way to arrange travel and accomadation plans. It is simply bad form for the vets to handle the situation as they did. A commitment like this is a large one and no doubt the volunteers and op potcake organizers appreciate the time and effort vets put into such an event-- but confirmation should never have been given only to back out at the last moment. They knew this event was a charitable one from the get go and profits were not expected to be made. If they didn't think they could afford to participate, they should have given notice right away.

Furthermore, the logic behind the decision is simply beyond me. If your #1 concern is for the animals who suffer daily with no voice, then why not accept the help being offered from the foreign vets and assistants? I am sure the bahamian vets would be looked on with great admiration for opening their arms to guests who are willing to help us with this massive problem.

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

Yeah, I know, I just didn't want it to get lost that these could be good people who've worked hard, established legal businesses etc. They're competent, this is admirable, they're the kind of people that we desperately need in our society. They just have a seemingly very unpopular stand on the issue here.

dogfriendly 11 years ago

Well said, Blackcat!

blackcat 11 years ago

Spay and neuter is the only proven way. Many studies show that simply killing these animals is not the answer-more only move in to fill the void where other packs and colonies once were. Through educational outreach and spay and neuter, populations die off naturally and in a humane manner. Let us not forget that this overpopulation is first and foremost a people problem. These were originally domestic animals that bred at will and have been turned to the streets with nowhere to go. by educating the public and spaying and neutering, we encourage more responsible pet ownership in a cleaner and safer environment.

Ellenkohn 11 years ago

As foreigners, we want desperately to help the starving animals of the Bahamas. I am a strong supporter of the Humane Society of Grand Bahama, owner of 2 loving potcakes, and the founder of The Kohn Foundation, a U.S. non-profit that helps the HSGB raise money for spay/neuter initiatives. We have seen huge improvements in West End, Grand Bahama, as a result of spay/neuter there many years ago. We want to work in tandem with local vets, NOT take their business away. Please reinstitute Operation Potcake for the entire Bahamas, and allow foreign vets to come into your country and help out. Ellen Kohn, the Kohn Foundation: www.thekohnfoundation.org in Colorado

watcher 11 years ago

Dr Bizzel - do us all a favour and stop running after each and every post here trying to justify the despicable actions taken by local vets.

I, and hope many, many, others will be using my Twitter and Facebook accounts to publicise the greed of you and your kind, and I hope that the "outside world" sees you all for what you really are - greedy, uncaring and self-absorbed.

Peggy 11 years ago

You guys are too funny. You let one little old Vet take you down? You stomped your feet and then called the whole thing off cause you didn't get your way? Always go HIGHER .....pick up the phone and call the Prime Minister who endorsed your campaign!!! You are investing thousands of dollars in this country for Pete's sake. You don't fool around with the likes of Dr. B.......I have been in Animal Welfare in the Caribbean for many years....we only deal with government officials that can actually make these decisions.

Dr. B., congratulations. You took down a big project single handedly. You are a big man. Now stop this foolishness and get out of the way of these good people. Yes we foreigners can be abrasive and we know you don't like us and we don't care. This work is not about us or you.

You guys are bringing in the big guns, the professional vets who can speed dial spays and neuters. I have worked with many of them. Blink and you miss the surgery. Can the local vets do this? If not why are you wasting your time with them? Just do as many as the Humane Society can handle and or rent a surgery room or a gas anethesia machine from a friendly Vet. BHS should have those contacts, let them organize this.

We use the figure of $50 per spay or neuter also. It is quite reasonable. Most folks have no idea the enormous costs of setting up one of these clinics along with the amount of work. If you get no cooperation you go past them and carry on. If the Prime Minister turns you down, you need to call WSPA or Humane Society International who have professionals to work with Governments.

Zags 11 years ago

Actually, Peggy, as it turns out it was NOT Dr. Bizzell who objected to OP 2014. He was President of the VMAB when OP 2013 took place, and had approved OP 2014, on behalf of the VMAB, a few weeks before his term ended. Apparently that approval was reversed when the new officers of the VMAB took over in October. It seems that there is much more to this story than meets the eye...

JackG 11 years ago

Actually, Zags it was Bizzel and there is plenty of proof I have seen about his stance on this issue and foreign Vets in general.

Zags 11 years ago

I can only speak in regard to this situation. One of the main organizers of OP 2014, Laura Kimble, has publicly stated that Dr. Bizzell did give approval, as President of the VMAB, for the foreign vets to participate in OP 2014. That is why they were so shocked when they received the letter from the new slate of VMAB officers in November. We all, wrongly, jumped to the conclusion that it was Dr. Bizzell because his name was out there.

TruthSayer 11 years ago

Totally Bizzell behind this. He has done this before and will continue to do it. You can't forget his past......one of his comments about American Vets coming to help in the past...."they just want to come here, drink beer and lay on the beach and get a tax deduction"...........remember that Bizzell? He has a real issue with American Vets in particular.

Zags 11 years ago

For your information, Truthsayer, Dr. Bizzell and an American vet conducted a very successful spay/neuter clinic in Current, Eleuthera in May of this year.

PBizzell 11 years ago

Some of my best friends are American vets! Actually they usually come, work their backsides off and then go to the beach and drink some beers which is fine by me.

Domin1 11 years ago

Agreed more than likely egos are at play.

Agreed local vets were turned into evil villains somewhere along the way in these posts.

Agreed everyone on the road to smarty-pantsization might not be a bad thing.

I myself am not smart enough to know all the answers, I just know some basic things. We need good ethical leadership. We need people who are willing to work together to address problems. Egos need to be left at the door. We need a better educated workforce. There's nothing wrong with accepting help if only to get that step up.

Domin1 11 years ago

Anyone can have the answers, even kids: #kindergarten!ha #JackAndrakasuperbjob, it's whether or not you are willing to do the work and stay the moral and ethical course.

Personally there are three places, answers or not, I will never work: in a classroom, in a courtroom, and in political office (shudders)!

I appreciate honesty, the only thing worse than a weak man is a bully! #meekshallinherittheearth

If the Vets have said they got this, then they got this, we could apply all the foreign generosity to the other social issues right, but I suspect, if there are no benefits to be had (money, land, contracts etc.) then there would be no one there to 'help'.

Therefore I applaud a group for finally saying sh1t is out of control, we gat to fix this ourselves!! #howevertheycametotheconclusion

JohnDoe 11 years ago

Squarely on topic 50 times the price is hyperbole, the matter of supplies is from what I gather where the negotiations broke down and the partnership split (see my earlier post on 1 of the many ways those negotiations could have gone). The Vet assoc decided to keep calm and carry on with the objective to spay and neuter as many strays as possible (not an unfamiliar situation even where charitable businesses are concerned). It was after that this issue grew so many other legs and turned into this monster. Now it seems that they are being force-fed the foreign supplies because they are so much cheaper when in fact they do not propose to fund any of the other needs of the strays in year round concern and care and as much as this issue affects the entire nation, they offer no assistance in the professional development of Bahamian professionals in animal care.

I believed them when they said they needed help before I believe them when they say they don't need the help now. I wouldn't care if they ask for help later. I do know that this criticism is already amounting to more work for them and if the public would rather stay in opposition than get behind THEIR decision then the public would rather see them fail. I would like to see the project succeed and as the Vets have challenged themselves to make it succeed then I would like to see the Vets succeed.

To change my mind I would require intimate knowledge of the negotiations, the suppliers, the financials (private and charitable) and possibly new developments in vet science to determine if the most efficient surgical methods are being employed.

But them that would make me a veterinary professional so instead I trust them first and reserve judgement

TruthSayer 11 years ago

No one is withdrawing support. Operation Potcake organizers have worked with the Vet association from the beginning. They were part of the overall plan....from the beginning. They have been invited to attend every meeting (interesting, when the vets met about this issue, they did not offer an invitation to OP. OP asked to attend and were told no.....great way to show you want to work with others, huh?) The vet association said from the beginning (about 2 years ago now) that they could not take the time to tackle the problem, but offered to do surgeries for OP during the year at a cost of........Wait for it..........$30, this included money for them, supplies and to pay assistants. OP would purchase vaccines. They were to do, collectively, 1000 surgeries during the year, between the big OP clinics. This is what THEY agreed to do, ThEY said they couldn't take the time for the big mash clinics (and they are still saying that, as they can only offer 3 days a year to help the problem) So I would like to see their numbers on how many surgeries they have done during the year? My guess is not many. In the end it is the VMAB that has pulled their support, in the end it is the MVAB that refuses to work with others to fix the problem. You say they have challenged themselves to fix it, yet they have on multiple occasions said they cannot do it. In the mean time, the dogs and cats are breeding while they figure it out. This is not a new problem and having volunteer Vets come in to assist is not going to threaten their jobs. These animals would NEVER, EVER end up in their clinics and while they sit in their clinics, the animals suffer on the streets. It is time to swallow their pride and do the right thing. There is a certain grace in accepting help when it is offered.

Domin1 11 years ago

Well as long as you are not withdrawing support. Please be careful that your criticism and altruism does't paint them into a corner either. I'm sure they know by now outside help is available but they don't want the help for now, that's ok by me Godspeed Vets!

Right242 11 years ago

Great job showing the world how stupid you are.

Domin1 11 years ago

?

John 11 years ago

I don't know if I AgREE WITH HAVING ALL DOGS AND CATS SPADED AND NEUTERED AS AN ANIMAL CONTROL FEATURE. THE REASON WE HAVE A STRONG AND AND RESIALNT DOG AND CAT POPULATION IS BECAUSE THESE ANIMALS WER ALLOWED TO ROAM AND BREED FREELY. Only the strongest dogs and cats of a pack were allowed to breed and only the fittest of a litter survived. When some viruses hit this island pedigree dogs and cats drop dead like flies, but the potcake survives.. Yes spay and neuter when the population gets out of control but never let it become an annual affair

PBizzell 11 years ago

The population IS out of control. I believe it would take 5,000 spay/neuters per year for 5 years to get it under control.

JackG 11 years ago

And you Sir are a major part of the problem.

JohnDoe 11 years ago

So, based on your estimate above, have the local vets committed to performing 5,000 spay/neuters per year for 5 years?

John 11 years ago

I just found out why dogs drink out of the toilet. My mother said it's because the water is a lot colder in there. I'm like, How does my mother know that? - Wendy Liebman

Veterinarians are sooo expensive. I said to my vet "What's the life expectancy of a boxer?" He said "Fifty thousand dollars". Elayne Boosler

John 11 years ago

Why does the dog at the top of the page looks so happy that he is getting spayed? Says it surely beats child support.

ThisIsOurs 11 years ago

Dean's Blue Hole is on 60mins!!! (Why are those guys wearing PLP tshirts?)

Geneo 11 years ago

At the end of the day 3 things have resulted due to the position and actions of the Bahamas Veterinay AssociationOperation ..

1) the massive spay/neuter operation has been cancelled.....well done the Bahamas veterinary association.

2) the Bahamas Vet Association has shot itself in the foot and created a huge public relations disaster for itself with both the Bahamian and International public...well done the Bahamas Veterinary Association

3) the Bahamas Vet Association has negatively impacted the Bahamas brand internationally....well done the Bahamas Veterinary Association.

To Dr. Bizzell and any other Bahamian vets reading this....its time to oust your Association president and governing body as incompetant and vote in a new team who actually have working brains,common sense and a modicum of public relations savvy to clean up this mess.

Zags 11 years ago

This is a re-post:

Last year during Operation Potcake both local and foreign vets volunteered their time free of charge. No vet was paid for his or her participation. In addition, all surgical material used for the spays/neuters was supplied to the participating vets for their use. These supplies which cost approximately $50.00 per animal were bought with funds raised locally.

There is no such thing as a FREE SPAY [or NEUTER]. A spay [or neuter] may be performed at no cost to the owner, but the materials used have to be purchased - whether with funds raised through contributions, or by the vets purchasing them from their suppliers.

The following question was posed in a Tribune 242 survey today:

"Operation Potcake has been cancelled following opposition from local vets. How do you think the spay and neuter programme should be run?"

The options were:

"As they did last year, foreign volunteers should be allowed to operate for free"

or

"Local vets should undertake the project at a cost of $50 per surgery"

Unfortunately, the premise of this question is incorrect.

Neither the first option, nor the second is a true statement.

The correct choice of options should have been:

As they did last year, local and foreign veterinarians and their staffs providing their services free of charge and being supplied with all necessary surgical material paid for with funds raised locally, at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

or

Local veterinarians and their staff providing their services free of charge, and being reimbursed for all surgical material which they supply and use for the spays and neuters at a cost of $50.00 per animal?

In each case, the cost per animal is $50.00.

The mistaken idea that the foreign vets' surgeries are free is ridiculous: All surgery must be paid for.

Foreign vets are coming into a situation to assist the local veterinarians and everything that they need is provided. When local vets carry out spay/neuter projects within the islands of The Bahamas they purchase and take along their own supplies.

Unfortunately veterinarians in The Bahamas get a bum rap. This may be because they do not go around tooting their own horns and, perhaps, because few people know how much pro bono work they actually do.

I have never seen any other medical school graduate [in The Bahamas] treated with such disrespect and it is in stark contrast to the way that veterinarians are revered in other countries. I have never experienced the way [my fellow] lay people and animal lovers feel that they are as qualified [to make decisions concerning animal welfare] as a veterinarian who has been through years of medical school.

As lay people we should be embarrassed by our own behaviour and comments; we would never dream of disrespecting our physicians in this manner.

Learn more about a topic before you vent, there are always at least two sides to every story

Operation Potcake cancelled after local vet opposition

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