NATIONAL Security Minister Marvin Dames.
Reader poll
Do you agree with National Security Minister Marvin Dames that the death penalty needs to be enforced?
- Yes, I agree.
- No, I do not agree.
304 total votes.
By SANCHESKA DORSETT
Tribune Staff Reporter
sdorsett@tribunemedia.net
NATIONAL Security Minister Marvin Dames said yesterday the Minnis administration will push for the death penalty to be enforced in an effort to reduce the violent crime in the country.
In an interview with The Tribune, Mr Dames said the Free National Movement will use everything on the law books, including capital punishment, to make the Bahamas safe for “law-abiding citizens.”
However, he said a homicide rate of zero is “wishful thinking” no matter how many “measures the government puts in place”.
Mr Dames’ comments came days after the country recorded its 78th murder, according to The Tribune’s records.
There were also five murders recorded last week.
“We will use everything necessary in the law to ensure that persons who continue to commit crimes are dealt with to the fullest extent of the law and that includes capital punishment,” he said.
“It is on the books and so it is fair game, it’s not something we have to put there, it is already there it just needs to be enforced. We cannot have a lawless society and it is our job as the government to introduce new policies and to enforce old ones to make sure everyone is safe. We are proponents of the death penalty, our leader talked about it during the campaign trail and we have not changed our position on that. We will do what we promised we will do. You are not going to completely stop all the murders, but our priority is to ensure that hardworking, decent Bahamians are not victims. We have to protect our citizens. This is not a quick fix.”
In February, Prime Minister Dr Hubert Minnis, while in opposition, said unless the government is willing to enforce the death penalty, “criminals will continue to ravage our country and keep citizens in fear”.
Dr Minnis said the country is losing the battle to the criminal element and “more serious measures” need to be taken.
Last year, Dr Minnis insisted that the necks of “murderous scumbags” in the country must be “popped” as he castigated the Christie administration for failing “miserably” in its obligation to keep Bahamians safe.
However, yesterday, Mr Dames said there is “little” the government can do if persons continue to make bad decisions.
“There is very little we can do when people make lifestyle choices that put their lives at risk,” the Mount Moriah MP said.
“There are things we will do and are currently doing to address crime. . . (but) sometimes unfortunately people refuse to change. We can do things to bring the numbers down but you are not going to completely stop all the murders. Our priority is to ensure that hard working decent Bahamas are protected. A zero-homicide rate is wishful thinking, we can bring the numbers down but we are not going to prevent every homicide.”
A 2006 decision by the London-based Privy Council, the Bahamas’ highest court of appeal, quashed the country’s mandatory death penalty for murder convicts, which it said was unconstitutional.
In 2011, the Privy Council also said the death penalty should only be given in cases where the offence falls into the category of the “worst of the worst.”
That same year, the Ingraham administration made changes to the Penal Code to set out the criteria for the types of murders that would attract a discretionary death penalty after conviction.
The law changes made it so a person convicted of killing a member of the Royal Bahamas Police Force, Royal Bahamas Defence Force, Department of Customs, Department of Immigration, the judiciary or correctional services would be eligible for the death penalty.
Someone convicted of killing someone during a robbery, rape, kidnapping or terrorist act would also fall into this category.
However no one has been hanged since the amendments were passed into law.
The last person to be executed by the state was David Mitchell in January 2000.
Some observers have called on the Bahamas to abandon the Privy Council in order for the country to be free to execute those on death row.
Others have called for further clarification on what murders are “most extreme and exceptional” in the Privy Council’s view.
Comments
Tarzan 7 years, 5 months ago
Clearly the Bahamas will have to abandon the Privy Council appeal system to institute a death penalty that will actually be imposed. It will never happen with British judges in the chain of appeal. Institution of some form of RICO statute would be a big step forward, so that entire drug gangs could be incarcerated for the acts of any of their members taken in pursuit of their common criminal conspiracy. The drug distribution and sale business is at the heart of these gangs' activities.
DDK 7 years, 5 months ago
So would these revenge, drug-related, drive-by, chase and shoot killings , which are not during a robbery, rape, kidnapping or terrorist act would also fall into this category allowing the death penalty?
Sickened 7 years, 5 months ago
I hope so.
sheeprunner12 7 years, 5 months ago
The Bahamas can remain under the Privy Council for foreign/diplomatic/trade/civil affairs ..... But it can attach itself to the Caribbean Court of Justice to deal with criminal affairs ...... OR the Government can amend the Penal Code to make the Bahamas Court of Appeal the final court when dealing with matters relating to homicide cases ........ It can be solved, if the Government wishes to take the initiative .......... We now know that Minnis & Dames prefer death penalty ..... Where is Carl Bethel on this debate??? ............. Sounds like a Trump-like situation brewing here
jackbnimble 7 years, 5 months ago
I agree that we need to get rid of the Privy Council and only retain them for civic matters. Our Court of Appeal should be our final court with regard to criminal matters and if it takes a referendum to fix it then let just do that and be done with it instead of pussyfooting around.
TalRussell 7 years, 5 months ago
Comrades! Here we go again the new Minister Security for the People - flatly comes right out to admits his only crime strategy is to reemploy the Hangman, who is on a government contract for flat $1610.00 per neck snapped that passes through the hangman's rap door.
sheeprunner12 7 years, 5 months ago
That is the silver bullet ....... even the baddest fella in Fox Hill does not want his neck popped .......... Put the Max Prison on a cay and pop necks every week
Sickened 7 years, 5 months ago
I think the guillotine would be best. I would only change it though where the person has to face up, not down into an empty basket. The second person can look down into the basket but only if there is at least one other head in there.
ThisIsOurs 7 years, 5 months ago
Agree, it's becoming clearer that none of them have any plans for anything. They're all campaigning trying to win the 24 hour news cycle. Two unconnected problems, one, some of these guys don't expect to live beyond 30 as it is, two, in some warped reality they believe they're the one who wont get catch, threatening them with death won't stop them. Where is the coordinated crime plan?
sheeprunner12 7 years, 5 months ago
The principle here is SOCIAL JUSTICE ........... Go and read Articles 16,17 and 18 of the Constitution and the Penal Code ....... This is not England
ThisIsOurs 7 years, 5 months ago
They're dropping like flies on the street, the prospect of death is not stopping them. I don't really care if they implement a death penalty or not, I want them to show me with their words and action that they don't think that is the solution . Will see what Dr Minnis has to say in his address. I'm not really sure what this administration is trying to accomplish other than jailing PLP's. Jailing them is fine but we need more than that.
baldbeardedbahamian 7 years, 5 months ago
I would support the death penalty for government employees convicted of bribery or corruption charges, also all adulaters should be stoned to death publically. Anyone caught not going to church on Sunday should be put in the stocks for a day. Lots more but let's start with state sanctioned killings of convicted murderers. Oh, and rapists get castrated. Hope the judicial system does not make too many mistakes.
sheeprunner12 7 years, 5 months ago
BOL ........... Do you want The Bahamas become the Christian version of Iran?????? .............. A theocratic dictatorship ruled by Mosaic law???? Bahamians sing that tune .......... but their lifestyles are the very opposite
baldbeardedbahamian 7 years, 5 months ago
I was trying to be funny. Obviously my sense of humour must be warped.
Honestman 7 years, 5 months ago
Introduction of the Death penalty is a tired old chestnut. If the death penalty worked why are there so many murders in Texas? Having a death penalty option might make a desperate populace feel that something is being done but in reality it will make little difference. Let's face it, these young punks don't think ahead when they pull the trigger so why do we think they would think any more because there happens to be capital punishment on the statute? This is all about governments (past and present) being clueless as to how to stop the use of illegal arms in our country. Breaking away from the Privy Council in order to facilitate the introduction of capital punishment would be a very bad move for The Bahamas.
Reality_Check 7 years, 5 months ago
Precisely put!
Sickened 7 years, 5 months ago
It may not deter all murder but you know for sure it deters some. Plus what else do you do with murderers - using them for experimental drugs and surgery is also a great option.
ThisIsOurs 7 years, 5 months ago
Exactly. These guys don't expect to live beyond 30. Death penalty is meaningless to them.
OldFort2012 7 years, 5 months ago
You have to catch the murderers first. Haven't noticed too much of that going on. And I must say, we are all much safer with the Privy Council as the ultimate court of appeal. Or would someone prefer to put their own life in the hands of a Bahamian judge?
TalRussell 7 years, 5 months ago
Comrades! The Tribune should do a background story on the Hangman under contract who the people's public treasury pays $1610 per neck snapped?
Lets first start with a Zero Tolerance Gun Policy and stop arming our policeman's....and begin working at reducing the number lawyers. Uganda has a population 40 million with under 3000 lawyers compared to the Bahamaland, with a population of 350,000 with just under 1100 lawyers? Is there any wonder why the number crooked lawyers when the legal fees pie is so small them feed off? But there is always elected and appointed office which seems breed them?
jus2cents 7 years, 5 months ago
FACT: Carrying out actual Law Enforcement and better governance would stop crime. Half the people in Fox Hell are only there because of inept and corrupt politicians, if people had better education, opportunities and prospects most prisoners would be living a productive life not languishing in Jail.
Maybe Death penalty for corrupt politicians now we are talking, but you can't execute someone because their 'lot in life' sucks.
avidreader 7 years, 5 months ago
The threat of using the death penalty has reared its head again and once more the general public needs to be reminded of one of the main reasons the UK ceased using the death penalty decades ago. Read up the infamous case of John Reginald Halliday Christie who testified at the trial of Timothy Evans accused of murdering his wife and his baby daughter Geraldine. Evans was found guilty and promptly hanged. A few years later the bodies Christie had hidden in the walls and back garden of his house at 10 Rillington Place were discovered by new tenants. Christie was arrested while on the run and was hanged for his numerous crimes. However, this outcome did not benefit Timothy Evans in any way.
sheeprunner12 7 years, 5 months ago
And when you look at the social dysfunction in England ...... how did that work out for them??????? ....... We need to sweep our own front door
TalRussell 7 years, 5 months ago
Comrades! It's not like privileged red shirts have not escaped a date with the Hangman's Noose? I think most in their 60's- also have a good idea on who killed Sir Harry Oakes? How many whites, or well-to-do blacks- have been sentenced death in the Bahamaland? The Hangman's Trap Door is for poor and the near poor among us. I think we hanged a white tourist man's - like once?
dahasamo 7 years, 5 months ago
Harry Oakes was murdered in 1943. No one in their sixties was alive then.
TalRussell 7 years, 5 months ago
Comrade Dahasamo, you're observation is correct but anyone in their 60's would have grownup during the period when the two main 'native' characters close to the murder -were not only alive but well known to the vast majority Bahamalanders. The Eugune Dupuch Law School might want to consider putting on a 'mock-trial' - "Who Really Ordered the killing of Sir Harry Oakes?" Considering the former King England played a major role in the police investigation - it would be pretty interesting.
birdiestrachan 7 years, 5 months ago
This FNM government has no vision so he and the PM decide. to pop necks. I believe at least one is Roman Catholic. It is usually poor black people who can not afford the best defense who will end up with their necks popped as the peoples time say. Innocent people have been killed by the state. and persons who have performed the task have lost their minds they went mad. but perhaps the clue less ones will do the job, right in Rawson Square and perhaps they can sell tickets to the blood thirsty.
realfreethinker 7 years, 5 months ago
birdie ban you translate what you just said?
DDK 7 years, 5 months ago
If you're a real free thinker you should get it!
themessenger 7 years, 5 months ago
@ DDK,I recall a benevolent old gentleman now deceased who advocated exactly that,Public hangings in Rawson Square, only difference is that he said he would have sold peanuts and popcorn LOL.
DWW 7 years, 5 months ago
It is a well supported opinion that morr than half of the poor souls given the death penalty are innocent. Just look at how many people are acquitted of murder years later. The ability to clearly without doubt know if you have the right man in a murder investigation is not easy and often circumstantial. Watch a movie called Let Him Have It. Based on a true story.
The simple solution is to decriminalize illegal drugs, ie. Marijuana, and the drug gang problem disappears overnight while creating new GDP and new tax income and let's the police have more time to pursue the not important issues.
AM I WRONG?
Talk has a few good points but mostly unresearched unsupported statements that are mostly inflammatory.
Lol baldbeardedpirate.
milesair 7 years, 5 months ago
The death penalty doesn't work. Just look at the U.S. Also, some innocent people get killed by it. Two wrongs does NOT make a right. The death penalty is nothing more than state sanctioned violence. What ever happened to "Thou shall not kill," or does that not apply because the government is doing it?
Alex_Charles 7 years, 5 months ago
Yeah the death penalty while ignoring the blaring economic melt down, resurgence of social issues, our stupid war on drugs, youth unemployment, atrocious education record etc. etc.
If fellas are getting out on bail and dying with 48 hours, you think the death penalty is gonna change anything? That's also ignoring the legislative hurdles to jump over with the privy count. whom, unless there are some reforms on the horizon, makes this entire talking point nothing but steamy CO2 emissions being blown up someone's ass.
Abaconian 7 years, 5 months ago
Decriminalise Marijuana and install CCTV in certain areas. That would help.
I don't agree with Tal's "zero gun" suggestion. When was the last time someone was murdered with a licensed shotgun? I would go so far as to say it hasn't happened in decades. Most murders happen with unlicensed guns in the hands of thugs who would not get approval if they applied for a gun license. Besides, there are too many illegal guns on the streets now it would be near impossible to get rid of them let alone prevent them from coming back in through our borders. If we took away the guns from police officers and license holders the criminals would be unstoppable.
Well_mudda_take_sic 7 years, 5 months ago
Unfortunately Marvin Dames knows full well that someone who should be on death's row is more likely to get a life sentence instead if they are wealthy and can afford the high priced lawyers. It's usually only the financial poor who end up on death row and ultimately going to the gallows simply because they lack the financial resources to hire the necessary legal talent to file an appeal even in instances where an appeal is warranted and should indeed be filed. It's better to tackle the violent crime problem at the other end of the time spectrum, i.e. through proper upbringing, a good education and the self-esteem that comes with a job that pays a salary/wage that one can live off of. It's this type of life cycle that we need to create for most if not all of our people.
Reality_Check 7 years, 5 months ago
You're absolutely right about how big money can affect the outcome of a trail and even an earlier lower court sentence in the case of murder. Case in point is the recent Order of the Court of Appeals that Donna Vaslyi have the benefit of another trial rather than serve the 30 year sentence that she initially received for being found guilty of the murder of her husband. Big wig QC lawyers (including probably one or two foreign ones) will of course be pleading her case in the second trial she has successfully been able to "buy" and the judge in the retrial will no doubt be overcome by inculcated deference to such senior high priced wise men of the law, almost guaranteeing Donna Vasyli will eventually get the full acquittal she is willing and apparently able to "buy". Sadly, the blind fold was removed from the eyes of the Lady of Justice a long time ago in our country, leaving only the financially less well-off to suffer injustice within our criminal justice system.
ThisIsOurs 7 years, 5 months ago
"NATIONAL Security Minister Marvin Dames said yesterday the Minnis administration will push for the death penalty to be enforced in an effort to reduce the violent crime in the country."
Cannot believe this was his strategy...I don't get it. "National Security" is not a purely punitive affair. But that's all he had, punish them and we'll reduce violent crime. I wonder if anyone has learned anything from the war in Iraq. The killing hasn't worked.they don't die they reinvent themselves. What @Mudda said.
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